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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) C17: French Winawer Bogoljubov (Read 9933 times)
Net Warrior
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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #14 - 01/25/10 at 16:10:32
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Here's a topical blitz game I just came across:

Macieja (2653) vs. Psakhis (2545) 
playchess.com INT 2004 · French defence (C00) · 1-0

http://www.365chess.com/view_game.php?g=2952699

  

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BPaulsen
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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #13 - 01/24/10 at 18:47:03
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Against 6. a3 I was most sympathetic to 7...b6. 7...Nbc6 is fully satisfactory, but 7...b6 felt more thematic.

I recall Watson in PTF (I don't remember which version) gave both as =.
  

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Net Warrior
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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #12 - 01/24/10 at 15:12:35
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dom, I took a look at that position after 16.Ng5.  The engine liked White but otb I'd get into time trouble  while playing either side. Cheesy

Mnb, ...b6 intending to exchange the bishops of the light squares comes up all the time while studying the French but not so often otb.  I keep intending to look closer at those lines...thanks for the heads up.
An octopussy is a nice turn of a phrase for that ...Bb4...Ne3 assault in the cxd4 lines.  Makes the idea easy to remember!  6. f4 already looked aweful for White and now it looks worse. 
  

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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #11 - 01/24/10 at 14:13:37
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A few additions to Dom's great overview, based on Psachis:

B) 7...b6 intending to exchange the bishops of the light squares is to be considered.
C) Black can do an octopussy with 6.f4 Nf5 (Bxc3 7.Bxc3 b6!? again; Psachis also suggests this after 6.Nf3) 7.Nf3 cxd4 8.Nb5 Ne3.
  

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dom
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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #10 - 01/23/10 at 17:49:13
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@NetWarrior: yes, maybe one or two decades to read books and enter moves....in Watson's game and from Watson's book: 11.Qh4 Nf5 12.Bxf5 Rxf5= . You can play 11.Qg5 too, but it is the same: Black is happy to be near the ending with a moving pawn center. There are other lines for Black: one of them is 8...Bxc3!? as given by Watson. One move played by Shaked Tal and maybe you can enjoy the variation: 9.Bxc3 (otherwise, why playing Bogoliubov idea before?)  10.ooo dxc3! 11.Bxh7+ Kxf7 12.Rxd8 cxb2+ 13.Kxb2 Rxd8 14.Nf3 Kg8 15.Qh5 Ng6!? 16.Ng5 ...and so who is betterWhite or Black ???  Cool
  

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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #9 - 01/23/10 at 17:32:02
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dom, this is an amazing amount of work.  Thanks so much.  I've entered all these lines into Fritz and I'll get to looking closer as time permits.  One question; in line "C", after 10...g6, what was Whites reply? 
  

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dom
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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #8 - 01/23/10 at 11:19:01
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5...Ne7 (or 5....Nh6!? (Kindermann)) and now

A) 6.Nb5 Bxd2 7.Qxd2 oo 8.c3 (8.dxc5?! Nd7 Karpov-Nogueiras,Rotterdam 1989 ; 8.f4 or 8.Nf3 then 8... a6) f6! Przewoznick-Malaniuk,Lviv 1986

B) 6.a3 Bxc3 7.Bxc3 Nbc6!? 8.Nf3 cxd4 9.Bxd4 (9.Nxd4 Nxe5 Spassky-Vladimirov, EU Cup 1991 (Psakhis)) Nf5 10.c3 Bd7 11.Be2 Rc8 Savon-Hort, Skopje 1968 (Psakhis,Drasko and MCO)

C) 6.dxc5 Nbc6 7.Qg4 (7.f4 Nf5 8.Nf3 Bc5 9.Bd3 Nh4! Watson-Harley,1994 (McDonald and Harley)) oo 8. Bd3 (8.ooo b6; 8.Nf3 f5 (Uhlmann))  f5!? (Tukmakov) 9.exf6 Txf6 10.Qh5 (10.ooo b6) g6 (10..h6 11.g4! (Watson)) 11.g6 Strenzewilk-Watson,Philadelphie 1996 (Watson)

D) 6.f4 Nf5 7.Nf3 Nc6 8.dxc5 Bxc5 9.Bd3 Nh4! see C)

E) 6.Nce2 Bxd2+ 7.Qxd2 Nbc6 8.f4 cxd4 9.Nf3 Nf5 

  

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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #7 - 01/22/10 at 17:59:26
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Thanks Kylemeister.  All of my chess books are from the 1990's and earlier.  For the French I've been using the original ECO and "The French Defence" published by RHM Press.  The only thing new I've got is Fritz 10, and these forums.  I few days ago I ordered MCO 15 and I'm looking forward to it's arrival. 
  

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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #6 - 01/22/10 at 17:08:41
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5. Bd2 is a long-standing book line; one doesn't really need an engine or a database to figure that it isn't bad.  Incidentally, after 5...Ne7, 6. a3 is MCO's (2008) main line.
  
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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #5 - 01/22/10 at 16:36:45
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Watson doesn’t think much of Dzindzi’s offerings: “Sometimes the recommended lines were initially attractive, but soon I figured out what was wrong, usually just a good move or two not mentioned at the appropriate juncture.”  He finds the same problems in “Chess Openings for White, Explained”.  I don’t have the book but after watching the video, Fritz 10 and I found 1-2 of GM Perelshteyn’s assessments to be over optimistic; Black was actually equal rather than in a difficult position.

Specifically, Watson addresses just two line, 5…Nh6, and 5…Ne7.  He pretty much rips apart DPA’s recommendations in both.  Re: 5...Nh6, Watson says “a move with which I've had great success, and which has done well since its introduction into grandmaster play. DPA recommend the line 6 Nb5 Bxd2+ 7 Qxd2 0–0 8 f4.” etc, etc, and I’m not about to question him.  However, Fritz 10 prefers 6.a3 and I found a few interesting games in my database leading to positions I wouldn’t mind playing for White.

After Watson’s dismantling of 5...Ne7, the line from the video, I’ll need to take a much loser look.  Perhaps Fritz 10’s preference for 6.a3 here will hold up as well.  In any event, just because the book is full of holes doesn’t necessarily mean the 5.Bd2 line is bad.  

It’s encouraging that dom avoids 4…c5 5.Bd2 cxd4 6.Nb5, and that Keano finds Bogoljubov’s move useful as well.  So, bottom line for now seems to be that the Nb5 counter play idea might be suspect in some lines and that a3 may still be a requirement of the position.      
  

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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #4 - 01/22/10 at 13:07:22
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As  french player I´ve had to play against it twice and it is far from easy - I then played a couple of games with the White pieces with decent results, its not a bad line since the main-line Winawer is very murky anyway. I´d recommend if you like it to give it a go.
  
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dom
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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #3 - 01/22/10 at 12:04:53
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yes Dzin,Pereshlstein book and Bd2 move have been deal here before  in forum  (and maybe also in older posts):
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1205718353/2#2

If you thought Bd2 was a very good all purpose move against the French ...I am sure you will be disappointed...only part of one system among others !? 
  

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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #2 - 01/21/10 at 16:58:45
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Wow Klyemeister, thanks for the reference.  Watson really is impressive.  I'll have to take a closer look at his critique when I get home tonight.  ....here's hoping I can salvage something out of all of this  Sad
  

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Re: French Winawer Bogoljubov
Reply #1 - 01/21/10 at 16:23:33
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C17: French Winawer Bogoljubov
01/21/10 at 15:23:23
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French Winawer Bogoljubov 1.e4 e6  2.d4 d5  3.Nc3 Bb4  4.e5 c5  5.Bd2…  

As White, I’ve recently switched back to the 3.Nc3 French and I’m still looking for the my preferences.  I found a video on ICC by a GM (can’t recall his name at the moment) touting his new opening rep book.  He likes the 5.Bd2 line for White and gives some interesting lines in the video.  After watching, I did some research on his and other lines not covered by him.  It seems to me that: (1) White gets to avoid reams of analysis required in the main line, (2) White avoids the time consuming a3, and doubled c pawns which divide his  king/queen wings from each other, (3) in the 6.Nb5 lines White get counterplay on the queenside which is kind of nice, and (4) in a lot of lines White still gets the a kingside attack with Qg4.  So I was wondering what all of you knowing French players  here think of 5.Bd2.  Also, does anyone know of reasons why this line isn't more popular with White.           
« Last Edit: 07/23/11 at 16:15:30 by dom »  

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