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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Budapest, Alekhine attack (Read 6624 times)
trandism
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Re: Budapest, Alekhine attack
Reply #10 - 02/18/10 at 13:37:00
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Please do yourself a favour and buy the Moskalenko book, then throw Taylor et al to the paper recycling designated places near your house



  
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1.b4
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Re: Budapest, Alekhine attack
Reply #9 - 02/03/10 at 14:44:05
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kylemeister wrote on 01/24/10 at 22:25:48:
Glancing at a few sources, there seems to be no consensus as to whether 5...Ng6 or 5...Nec6, if either, is better.  Moskalenko apparently prefers 5...Ng6, though in his article a few Yearbooks ago (which included an annotated game with each move -- Radulski-Moskalenko in the case of 5...Ng6), he didn't seem to mention a path to advantage against 5...Nec6.


Perhaps you should look in his book.  Wink

In my eyes 4.e4 is nothing special for white. But if you´re that 4.e4 kills the BG, you should post some critical lines.
  

[Event "CZE-ch"]&&[Site "Turnov"]&&[Date "1996"]&&[Round "10"]&&[White "Vokac,Marek"]&&[Black "Bazant,Petr Sr"]&&[Eco "A00"]&&1.b4 d5 2.Bb2 Nd7 3.Nf3 Ngf6 4.e3 g6 5.c4 dxc4 6.Bxc4 Bg7 7.Bxf7+&&1-0
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kylemeister
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Re: Budapest, Alekhine attack
Reply #8 - 02/02/10 at 21:56:22
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MCO, NCO and ECO (several editions) all think that 4. e4 Nxe5 should lead to equality (or in some cases "unclear" or "with compensation").  Offhand, it seems to me that over the last few decades I've only ever seen 4. Bf4 or 4. Nf3 put forth as leading to an advantage for White.
  
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Re: Budapest, Alekhine attack
Reply #7 - 02/02/10 at 21:38:09
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I have been playing the Budapest on and off for 8 years, and I also had no idea that 4.e4 Nxe5 was considered "roughly equal". I seem to recall a DVD from some years ago also suggesting that 4.e4 was a problematic move for black to meet, and it has always been my impression that 4.e4 gives white at least a small edge - I fail to believe that the Budapest is 100% sound and would not be at all surprised if this classical, agressive counter-thrust which claims the centre and boots the knight around is one of the reasons.

I have also been playing 4...h5 for many years and again seem to recall this being suggested some time ago by other Budapest experts. For all of Moskalenko's passion in his writings, his analysis is quite often sketchy or misleading (his chatper on the Fajarowicz, for example, even admits it is not fully sound for black, but he underplays how bad black's position is in several of the lines and misses a few known critical moves).

So, should the Budapest be put to rest? Nah, it's a black gambit on move 2 - it was always dodgy, it still is. Nothing's changed here really - people who play for fun or need a surprise weapon will still play it.  Wink
  

"Give a man a pawn, and he'll smell a rat. Give a man a piece, and he'll smell a patzer." - Me.

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Re: Budapest, Alekhine attack
Reply #6 - 01/24/10 at 22:25:48
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Glancing at a few sources, there seems to be no consensus as to whether 5...Ng6 or 5...Nec6, if either, is better.  Moskalenko apparently prefers 5...Ng6, though in his article a few Yearbooks ago (which included an annotated game with each move -- Radulski-Moskalenko in the case of 5...Ng6), he didn't seem to mention a path to advantage against 5...Nec6.
  
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nexirae
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Re: Budapest, Alekhine attack
Reply #5 - 01/24/10 at 21:32:36
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I knew practically nothing about the Budapest before I started reading this book, so I was unaware theory considers 4 ... Nxe5 to be roughly equal.

After 5 f4, which retreat is considered best?  Could you please provide an example line that should give black a playable middle-game?
  
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Re: Budapest, Alekhine attack
Reply #4 - 01/24/10 at 21:01:14
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It might be well to doubt that the evaluation of a major line on move four (4. e4 Nxe5) has been shifted from approximately equal (the standard view) to winning for White by this particular book.
  
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nexirae
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Re: Budapest, Alekhine attack
Reply #3 - 01/24/10 at 20:20:20
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The idea behind 4 ... h5 is to maintain the knight in white territory "to slow down white's attack."  Basically, he offers a lot of evidence that 4 ... Nxe5 5 f4 is crushing, and is trying to find alternatives.

Your suggestion of 9 ... 0-0 seems even worse than h4.  The h5 pawn can be taken safely in a lot of lines, leaving black with no compensation, and an uncomfortable position to boot.

9 ... h4 10 Na4 h3!?

If 11 Nxc5 hxg2 12 Kxg2 d6 13 Nd3 Qh4 14 Rh1 Bh3+ 15 Kh1 0-0-0 Fritz is already claiming -+, with ideas of Rh6.  So the bishop is taboo (although I bet a lot of human players would grab it OTB!).

11 gxh3 Be7 seems playable from a black standpoint, his lack of space (at least partially) compensated by the open h-file and weakened white king-side.

11 g3 is probably best.  So, 11 ... Be7 12 f4 Nc6 13 Be3 and white does indeed have an advantage in space and development.  += 

9 ... d6 seems to be another try, but it suffers from the same basic problems.

So, white seems to have an advantage in all lines.  Should we put the Budapest to rest?
  
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Re: Budapest, Alekhine attack
Reply #2 - 01/24/10 at 12:30:35
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The "idea" behind 4...h5 is that according to Taylor, 4.e4 is a critical try for advantage, and he's found some problems with Black's more normal responses.

4...h5 is his last hope. So if it is indeed pointless, that is bad news for the vability of the Budapest as a whole, if Taylor's opinions are trustworthy.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Budapest, Alekhine attack
Reply #1 - 01/24/10 at 11:46:52
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No offence, but this analysis is garbage. I don't see the idea behind 4...h5, since Black will have to capture the e5-pawn anyway, and the h-pawn will just be a weakness in Black's position, regardless of whether he castles kingside or not.

In your line, 10.Nd5 gives Black counterplay after 10...h3 11.g3 c6 12.Nc3 d6 that he doesn't deserve. After 10.Na4! Be7 11.f4 Nc6 12.h3, White is clearly better with a large space advantage and a lead in development.

Black can try to improve with 9...0-0, but then 10.Na4 Be7 11.f4 Ng4 12.h3 Nf6 13.e5 Ne4 14.Qd3 f5 15.Nc3 (other moves are strong as well) is also much better for White.



  

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nexirae
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Budapest, Alekhine attack
01/24/10 at 08:31:16
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1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 e5 3 dxe5 Ng4 4 e4 h5 5 Be2 Nc6 6 Nf3 Bc5 7 O-O Ncxe5

In his new book, Timothy Taylor (essentially) stops his analysis here, which is quite dismaying since he basically claims these are the best moves.  I was hoping to get some opinions/analysis of this variation.

For example, 8 Nxe5 Nxe5 9 Nc3 h4 10 Nd5 Fritz seems to like, when I'm not sure how black should proceed.  10 ... h3 11 g3 and black seems to have only two options: c6 or d6.  Each seems to have downsides. 

Anyway, what do you think?
  
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