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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) QID without NID (Read 10668 times)
Watsonfox
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #14 - 09/04/10 at 12:05:31
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well some GMs play the Nimzo Indian and the Vienna.
  
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Girkassa
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #13 - 07/19/10 at 16:24:33
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Quote:
Avoiding the Catalan is a good point, but there are lots of ways to do that after 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3; 3...b6 isn't a bad move.


My point exactly. I was referring to players who play the QID but not the NID. Those players might want to reply to both 3.Nc3 and 3.Nf3 by 3...d5, but after 3.Nf3 d5, they don't like the Catalan (4.g3). Therefore, they prefer 3.Nf3 b6. After 3.Nc3, they happily play 3...d5, when 4.g3 is not that critical anymore.

Thus, my point was to show that playing QID without NID makes sense if you want to play QGD, but you prefer to defend the QID rather than the Catalan.
  
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OrangeCounty
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #12 - 06/21/10 at 21:35:30
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I did make a mistake there:  I referred to 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. d4, or its transpositional twins.  The relevant distinction being between c4, d4, and Nf3 vs. c4, d4, and Nc3.  I was not intending to speak to actual Reti/English systems with no d2-d4. 

Probably colored by the fact that I open 1. Nf3 occasionally without any intention of playing anything independent of 1. d4 lines, on the theory that if 1. ... c5, I get an open Sicilian without any worries that I might have to play a Petroff, Berlin, or Marshall.
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #11 - 06/19/10 at 13:08:15
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OrangeCounty wrote on 06/18/10 at 22:52:42:
I still can't call the Taimanov Variation of the Modern Benoni the "flick knife".  Sounds childish.  Anyway, I agree with the above that generally, the 332239343C313E34375001 and Benoni are substitutes; you play the NID, and if 1. Nf3, you can play the 332239343C313E34375001 or a Benoni without risking the Taimanov, since the knight has been played out to f3 in front of the f pawn.


Benoni isn't an option versus 1. Nf3 related repertoires.

Queen's Indian English is, depending on move order the Nimzo English is, but there's no Benoni equivalent.
  

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Re: QID without NID
Reply #10 - 06/18/10 at 22:52:42
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I still can't call the Taimanov Variation of the Modern Benoni the "flick knife".  Sounds childish.  Anyway, I agree with the above that generally, the QID and Benoni are substitutes; you play the NID, and if 1. Nf3, you can play the QID or a Benoni without risking the Taimanov, since the knight has been played out to f3 in front of the f pawn.

I'm not sure why anyone would play the QID but not the NID, since the NID can be played as a QID - plus - e.g. the Fischer variation with 4 e3 b6.  The NID is less flexible for White because Black has an instant positional threat and flexible development.

Avoiding the Catalan is a good point, but there are lots of ways to do that after 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3; 3...b6 isn't a bad move.

After 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3, Black probably needs to prevent 4. e4 - so ...Bb4 and ...d5 are the main moves.  ...c5 is okay (I don't think the Taimanov is much worse than the MML in the Benoni).  ...b6 is probably playable.

But you would probably be just as well off playing the Nimzo and retreating the bishop to e7 in all the lines where you can do that without just being worse.
  
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Sjakkalle
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #9 - 05/26/10 at 13:20:45
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Answering 3.Nc3 with 3...d5 also lets White play some highly rated Exchange Variation lines with 4.cxd5 exd5, where White still has not immobilized the f-pawn and can play for central expansion. With the knight committed to f3, White needs to play another line.

Answering 3.Nc3 with 3...c5 to reach the Modern Benoni allows White to play the Flick-Knife attack with f2-f4 which is considered dangerous. Again, if white had played 3.Nf3 this line would be unavailable to him. According to Modern Chess Openings, many Black players only enter the Modern Benoni via the move order 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 in order to avoid playing against the Flick-Knife.
  
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #8 - 05/24/10 at 08:20:05
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Indeed, I find the QID/NID combo very sensible, and NID combined with 3.Nf3 d5 is a much more common combo than QID combined with 3.Nc3 d5. I can think of two reasons to go for the latter:

- You like QID lines where Black does not give up the bishop pair, and you simply do not want to play the QGD in every game.
- You want to play the QGD, but you want to avoid the Catalan. Against 3.g3, you play either 3...c5 or 3...Bb4+.

I can imagine the latter reason increasing in popularity looking at the recent successes of the Catalan.
  
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #7 - 05/06/10 at 17:07:37
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Just curious what (if any) is the aversion to the Nimzo that the OP might have.  To me it seems like the perfect compliment to the QID if that is the spirit in which you like to play and if you want to avoid QGD.
  
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #6 - 04/14/10 at 16:39:46
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MNb wrote on 04/14/10 at 00:12:53:
Yes, after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 there is the Benoni 3...c5, but combining that with the 0704284A02 makes even less sense.
There is the move order 1.d4 e6 (allowing the French, but avoiding the Catalan) 2.c4 (2.Nf3 Nf6 angles for the 0704284A02; 2.g3 c5) f5.


It's hard to imagine a GM, whose opening repertoire includes so different in style openings (Queen's Indian + Benoni).  Undecided
  
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #5 - 04/14/10 at 00:12:53
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Yes, after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 there is the Benoni 3...c5, but combining that with the QID makes even less sense.
There is the move order 1.d4 e6 (allowing the French, but avoiding the Catalan) 2.c4 (2.Nf3 Nf6 angles for the QID; 2.g3 c5) f5.
  

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Re: QID without NID
Reply #4 - 04/13/10 at 15:58:27
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But is there anything else after 3.Nc3? Maybe only 3...d5, which will transfer game into the QGD. But then why to play 1...Nf6 if 1...d5 leads to QG?
  
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #3 - 01/27/10 at 11:09:50
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Off the top of my head, Nigel Short.

Can't recall any other examples, although I am sure they exist.
  

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Re: QID without NID
Reply #2 - 01/27/10 at 08:48:57
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 01/26/10 at 22:24:58:
Yes.


Who?
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: QID without NID
Reply #1 - 01/26/10 at 22:24:58
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Yes.
  
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BobbyDigital80
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QID without NID
01/26/10 at 07:46:31
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Is there any GM who plays the Queen's Indian (or the Bogo-Indian) but against 3.Nc3 plays something other than the Nimzo-Indian?
  
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