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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) is the archangel defence a good defence? (Read 36647 times)
WillT
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #24 - 04/18/11 at 22:50:21
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8...exd4 is Riazantsev's idea, and is looking good at the moment according to Mikhalchishin.  A sample line might go: 9. Re1 d5 10. Ng5 Qd7 11. Rxe4+ dxe4 12. Nxf7 and now either 12...Rg8 with a draw by repetition (13. Ng5 Rh8 etc.) or 12...dxc3 when black's doing fine.
  
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BobbyDigital80
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #23 - 04/18/11 at 21:30:57
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Matemax wrote on 02/27/11 at 07:29:56:
Ametanoitos wrote on 02/27/11 at 00:24:16:
Actually i think that in the line you give only 8...exd4 is good to maintain the equilibrium.

As an appetizer I can offer you:

Bromberger, S. (2510)    --    Jaracz, P. (2539)
6th Open  (4)   Kalamaria GRE
2009.08.24     1-0     C78

1.e4 e5 2.Sf3 Sc6 3.Lb5 a6 4.La4 Sf6 5.O-O b5 6.Lb3 Lb7 7.c3 Sxe4 8.d4 exd4 9.Te1 d5 10.Sg5 Dd7

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

11.Txe4+ dxe4 12.Lxf7+ Ke7 13.Le6 Dd6 14.Dh5 Sd8 15.cxd4 Dxd4 16.Sc3 g6 17.Dg4 h5 18.Df4 Dd6 19.Dh4 Ke8 20.Lf4 De7 21.Sd5 Lxd5 22.Lxd5 c6 23.Lxe4 Df6 24.Te1 Le7 25.Le5 Dxg5 26.Dxg5 Lxg5 27.Lxg6+ Kd7 28.Lxh8 Se6 29.Le5 h4 30.Lf5 Te8 31.f4 Ld8 32.Td1+ Ke7 33.Td6 Lb6+ 34.Kf1 1-0


10...Qf6 is probably better.
  
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Matemax
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #22 - 02/27/11 at 07:29:56
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Ametanoitos wrote on 02/27/11 at 00:24:16:
Actually i think that in the line you give only 8...exd4 is good to maintain the equilibrium.

As an appetizer I can offer you:

Bromberger, S. (2510)    --    Jaracz, P. (2539)
6th Open  (4)   Kalamaria GRE
2009.08.24     1-0     C78

1.e4 e5 2.Sf3 Sc6 3.Lb5 a6 4.La4 Sf6 5.O-O b5 6.Lb3 Lb7 7.c3 Sxe4 8.d4 exd4 9.Te1 d5 10.Sg5 Dd7

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*

11.Txe4+ dxe4 12.Lxf7+ Ke7 13.Le6 Dd6 14.Dh5 Sd8 15.cxd4 Dxd4 16.Sc3 g6 17.Dg4 h5 18.Df4 Dd6 19.Dh4 Ke8 20.Lf4 De7 21.Sd5 Lxd5 22.Lxd5 c6 23.Lxe4 Df6 24.Te1 Le7 25.Le5 Dxg5 26.Dxg5 Lxg5 27.Lxg6+ Kd7 28.Lxh8 Se6 29.Le5 h4 30.Lf5 Te8 31.f4 Ld8 32.Td1+ Ke7 33.Td6 Lb6+ 34.Kf1 1-0
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #21 - 02/27/11 at 00:24:16
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Actually i think that in the line you give only 8...exd4 is good to maintain the equilibrium.
  
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Matemax
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #20 - 02/14/11 at 15:19:53
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Meat wrote on 02/14/11 at 09:33:54:
The Archangelsk looks very interesting and I would like to try it out sometime. What deters me a little is the gambit line with 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. 0-0 b5 6. Bb3 Bb7 7. c3
The positions are very messy and I don't know what's going on, but it looks very uncomfortable for black.
Or am I mistaken here? Is this considered dangerous for black?

Of course the Neo-Archangelsk with Bc5 first would avoid that, but I somehow think that one's development should follow the development of theory and hence you first need to play the Archangelsk before trying its modern incarnations.

7.c3 Ne4 8.d4 Na5 9.Bc2 ed4 10.b4 Nc4 11.Be4 Be4 12.Re1 d5 13.Nd4 c5 14.bc5 Bc5 15.f3
You may have a look at Shirov-Tomashevsky, 2009 to see what's going on in this piece sac line
  
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #19 - 02/14/11 at 15:10:45
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7.c3 is the main line proposed by Khalifman. I haven't seen the chessbase DVD by Mikhalsitchin and what does he think about it but it is probably White's best bet again this defense.
  
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #18 - 02/14/11 at 09:33:54
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The Archangelsk looks very interesting and I would like to try it out sometime. What deters me a little is the gambit line with 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. 0-0 b5 6. Bb3 Bb7 7. c3
The positions are very messy and I don't know what's going on, but it looks very uncomfortable for black.
Or am I mistaken here? Is this considered dangerous for black?

Of course the Neo-Archangelsk with Bc5 first would avoid that, but I somehow think that one's development should follow the development of theory and hence you first need to play the Archangelsk before trying its modern incarnations.
  
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #17 - 01/13/11 at 22:01:34
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Well, it`s not that easy, is it?
After:
1.e4-e5 2.Nf3-Nc6 3.Bb5-a6 4.Ba4-Nf6 5.0-0-b5!? 6.Bb3-Bb7 7.d3, black has the interresting option: 7...Bd6!?.
The over all score for white is 46% in my TWIC-base (from 2005 and onwards). regarding books, a good start is Pancczyk and Emms`work om Everymanchess back in 2000. Seems old, and it is of course. But inspiring and honest, and that counts... 
  

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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #16 - 02/15/10 at 22:36:21
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I am very flattered, but also amazed. Why exactly are you addressing to me? I haven posted nothing in this thread to deserve that honour!  Roll Eyes
  

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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #15 - 02/15/10 at 09:48:45
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Dear MnB,

I (1900+) have mostly played 

3...Bc5 4.c3 f5

hoping my opponent won't know or find the critical lines, which has been perfectly true so far.
Against an impulsive player I once played
3...Bc5 4.c3 Ne7 5.d4 (0-0! is critical) exd4
6.cxd4 Bb4+ sucessfully.

Far more common is 4.0-0 (at least in Austria,
from 1700 to 2100). 

I am very careful that there is no game of mine in any
databases with the 3...Bc5 line.

Frankly speaking I am a gambler in this line. 
 
"Sokolov: The Ruy Lopez Revisited" has analysis
of 4.c3 f5 and comes to no definite conclusion,
therefore I think below master level it is playable at least against an unprepared opponent .

  
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #14 - 02/13/10 at 16:49:25
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emary wrote on 02/12/10 at 09:19:29:
3...Bc5 has served me well.


I used to play 3..Bc5 with the intention of playing the Cordel Gambit after 4.c3 f5, but convinced myself it probably isn't sound.  If you don't mind me asking, what do you do after 4.c3?
  
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #13 - 02/12/10 at 11:09:04
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Markovich wrote on 02/12/10 at 03:30:17:
Matemax wrote on 02/11/10 at 17:55:41:
Quote:
The answer to that is that 6...Bb7 is strongly met by 7.d3!, just arguing that the ensuing Andersen-style Spanish, Black's bishop is misplaced on b7.

GM Ronen Har-Zvi recommends an interesting line in his video on chessclub.com which is 7...Bd6 8...Ne7 and 9...Ng6 - certainly worth a try.


So what does Har-Zvi recommend after 8.a4?  To me that looks rather challenging.

He doesnt analyse it because he mentioned that he has done a lot on a4 in the ...Bc5 variation
  
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #12 - 02/12/10 at 09:19:29
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Hello,

the german magazine Kaissiber No. 14
(www.kaissiber.com) has a theoretical article
(18 pages) by Unger about the archangelsk.
It is called "Pariser Verteidigung" there.
Kaissiber No 15 has some reactions called
"Nachlese zur Pariser Verteidigung".

Unger gives a Black repertoire based on the formation
Bc5, a6, b5, Bb7 with some original analysis 
not mentioned in "Khalifman: Opening According to Anand"
Therefore it should have surprise value at least.

Myself I have not yet tried the Archangelsk,
but 3...Bc5 has served me well.

Btw:
You certainly should be prepared for 
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6
5. Qe2!?, because Andrew Greet has written
a very detailed White Ruy Lopez repertoire based on this line.
Most Black repertoire books recommend setups with
Be7 for practical reasons (5.0-0 Be7 6.Qe2 will come to the same thing if you want to play the closed Lopez with Black).
Of course 5...Bc5 or 5...b5 6.Bb3 Bc5 are more consistent with the Archangelsk and might be the best replies anyway.
The only coverage of 5... Bc5 which I know
can be found in Greet's book.

"Marin: Beating the Open Games" could also be interesting for you. It gives a complete Black repertoire based on 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3...
and the Ruy Lopez Exchange variation, too. 
  
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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #11 - 02/12/10 at 03:30:17
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Matemax wrote on 02/11/10 at 17:55:41:
Quote:
The answer to that is that 6...Bb7 is strongly met by 7.d3!, just arguing that the ensuing Andersen-style Spanish, Black's bishop is misplaced on b7.

GM Ronen Har-Zvi recommends an interesting line in his video on chessclub.com which is 7...Bd6 8...Ne7 and 9...Ng6 - certainly worth a try.


So what does Har-Zvi recommend after 8.a4?  To me that looks rather challenging.
  

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Re: is the archangel defence a good defence?
Reply #10 - 02/11/10 at 22:52:38
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Quote:
Howcome no top GM plays the Archangel then (...Bb7)? They prefer instead to play the neo-Archangel (...Bc5).


Ivanchuk played it against Svidler in Nalchik 2009. He lost on time and used a half-forgotten choice, 7.d3 Be7 8.a4 0-0 9.Re1 d6 10.Nbd2 Re8 (more popular are 10...Na5 11.Ba2 c5 12.Nf1 Linares 2006), 11.Nf1 h6 (insted 11...Na512.Ba2 c5 is possible).
GM Ronen Har-Zvi line is interesting.
  

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