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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3 (Read 16367 times)
motörhead
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #25 - 03/21/10 at 21:48:00
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There is life in outer space...
Check this to get some intersting information on the pros and cons of 1.a3:

http://sverreschesscorner.blogspot.com/search/label/1.a3

After all with White all moves are playable
Cool

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #24 - 03/18/10 at 23:10:49
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1.Nc3 is a great weapon, but only if you are willing to embrace theory! The best 1.Nc3 players use it to switch to advantageous forms of the Caro-Kann, French, and Sicilian (and even the Scandinavian).  They are also very well prepared in the the Scotch.

So, 1.Nc3 deserves respect, but don't choose it to avoid theory.

My recommendation for avoiding theory is to choose a line that's about 3 moves deep and deviate there, not on move one.  All of the options on move one have been thoroughly researched and either found lacking or have "theory".
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #23 - 03/18/10 at 21:13:09
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If you're just looking to avoid theory, play something sound, but uncommon on the first move, like f4 or Nc3.
  

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #22 - 03/18/10 at 20:26:59
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KoKko wrote on 02/19/10 at 22:55:15:
It's definitely clear to me that no matter what opening you choose to play, your opponent with perfect play always finds a way to equalize.

I'm Elo FIDE around 1800; have tried with both e4 d4 c4, and my official score reads 52% as white and 57% as black!
So, I asked myself, why should I go on seeking for advantage as white when it comes out I play better as black.

I answered myself unless you know theory 100% it's a lot easier to play on black/passive side, I do mean easier to defend versus attacking.

It came to my help on my database... I glanced thoughtfully at 2 "little moves": a3 and h3
What if I pretend to play black lines (as white) with a little "plus" as a small advance of a side pawn?

Gosh, after some practice at blitz games I find out they do work! Ever better than some strong black lines i.e. Italian game.

Now it's time to try in real tournaments, I look forward to read some other comments...


Just for the record. A few days ago Magnus Carlsen gave 1.a3 a go. Okay it was blindfold but nevertheless...

Carlsen,M (2813) - Ivanchuk,V (2748) [A00]
19th Amber Blindfold Nice FRA (1), 13.03.2010
1.a3 Nf6 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 d5 4.e3 Bg4 5.h3 Bh5 6.cxd5 cxd5 7.Nc3 Nc6 8.Bb5 Rc8 9.g4 Bg6 10.Qa4 Nd7 11.b4 e6 12.Bb2 Be7 13.Bxc6 bxc6 14.Qxa7 c5 15.Qa6 0-0 16.Qe2 c4 17.e4 d4 18.Nb5 e5 19.h4 Qb6 20.a4 Qb7 21.Ng5 h6 22.h5 hxg5 23.hxg6 fxg6 24.f3 Bxb4 25.Ba3 Bxa3 26.Rxa3 Qb6 27.Qh2 Qc5 28.Qh7+ Kf7 29.Ra1 Nf6 30.Qh2 Ra8
White is already losing, but it is an instant termination after a typical blindfold oversight: 31.d3? Qxb5! 0-1.

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #21 - 02/24/10 at 02:49:44
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KoKko wrote on 02/23/10 at 13:35:19:
Damn, I need something different, something more extreme.
Black has to get full freedom of action, he can do as much as he wants, then I can follow his plans and then I strike him when the opportunity comes...when I play Black I'm strong as iron


Then the Rini Kuijf Opening definitely is for you. As he pointed out any early pawn move gives away information, so play 1.Nc3 ...(anything but b5) 2.Nb1. As the Dutch master himself formulated: White keeps on benefiting from pawn moves he has not played yet.
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #20 - 02/23/10 at 20:33:10
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KoKko wrote on 02/23/10 at 13:35:19:
I thought to be the only nuts here, but I'm damn wrong!

I think a3 and h3 can be played only by people, who like me, need the girls to be aquainted by a friend, because I get scared to say "hello".
What a rotten pussy am I...

Yes, I tried several other stuff..."waiting useful" moves like c4, but then you still give your opponent informations...he knows he can only share the center say with 1...e5 or 1...c5 or simply he can copy my moves c5, Nf6, Nc6...don't you guys hate to be followed closely when driving on the road?

Damn, I need something different, something more extreme.
Black has to get full freedom of action, he can do as much as he wants, then I can follow his plans and then I strike him when the opportunity comes...when I play Black I'm strong as iron and sooner or later a3 or h3 should come also useful!

You mean 1...g6 is strong, let's just treat it as a rev.Benko: 1.a3...g6, 2. e4 Bg7, 3. Nf3 ...c5, 4.Nc3/Bc4 I play a sort of reversed-reversed (double reversed) English Sicilian with a tempo up.
Crossing fingers...

Yes I tried e3 too, but it transposes too often. 1.e3 ...c5, 2. what? c4 gets into english symmetrical, whilst d4 gets into queen's opening, quiet lines. Or 1.e3...e5 and I get a French exchange.
1.Na3 is awful: 1...e5! 2.e4 ... Bxa3! I now got 2 camels on the a file soon they become meat for Black, moreover I gave up a knight, I do like knights.
1.g4? 1...d5 and game over.
1. b4 !? could be interesting as it denies 1...c5 the classical Black push, but engines drop it to -0.25...


Perhaps you are looking for something radical, like 1.e4 any move except 1...g6, 1...Nf6 and 1...d5 2.Qh5? 

Against 1...g6, White should play 2.Qe2 Bg7 3.h4, after 1...Nf6, 2.e5 Nd5 3.Qh5, and 1...d5 2.ed5 Qd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 (other moves 4.Qh5) 4.b4 Qb4 5.Qh5. 

Also, you forgot to reveal your revolutionary analyses on 1.d4, 1.e4 and 1.Nf3. I'm interested to see why 1.d4 is such a terrible positional concession, since exploiting the chronically weak e4-square isn't as easy as I thought.
  

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #19 - 02/23/10 at 15:21:30
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KoKko wrote on 02/19/10 at 22:55:15:

I answered myself unless you know theory 100% it's a lot easier to play on black/passive side, I do mean easier to defend versus attacking.

BPaulsen wrote on 02/19/10 at 22:59:24:

If you're scoring that much higher with black it's probably a good sign that your ability to play with the initiative needs work.

My advice: go the other extreme. Develop a highly aggressive gambit repertoire with White. Promise yourself to play it for a year. This what I did myself a long time ago, it is extremely liberating. Don't worry about being a pawn down, concentrate on development, open lines, attack, activity, threats... Even if your opponent defends well, you can usually convert the initiative to a drawn endgame (which is educational in itself). The point is to learn to play with the initiative. Perhaps you will drop in rating during that period. But perhaps you will be pleasantly surprised.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #18 - 02/23/10 at 14:38:02
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I think that to play such moves with some succes you have to be very aware of transpositions to good lines for white (= knowing theory). To me this is the only way you can get anything out them: transpone into lines where a a3 or h3 is a usefull move. This implies some cooperation of your opponent. 

On the whole, if black keeps it "real", 1. a3 and 1.h3 just seem useless.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #17 - 02/23/10 at 13:53:28
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KoKko wrote on 02/23/10 at 13:35:19:
I thought to be the only nuts here, but I'm damn wrong!

I think a3 and h3 can be played only by people, who like me, need the girls to be aquainted by a friend, because I get scared to say "hello".
What a rotten pussy am I...

Yes, I tried several other stuff..."waiting useful" moves like c4, but then you still give your opponent informations...he knows he can only share the center say with 1...e5 or 1...c5 or simply he can copy my moves c5, Nf6, Nc6...don't you guys hate to be followed closely when driving on the road?

Damn, I need something different, something more extreme.
Black has to get full freedom of action, he can do as much as he wants, then I can follow his plans and then I strike him when the opportunity comes...when I play Black I'm strong as iron and sooner or later a3 or h3 should come also useful!

You mean 1...g6 is strong, let's just treat it as a rev.Benko: 1.a3...g6, 2. e4 Bg7, 3. Nf3 ...c5, 4.Nc3/Bc4 I play a sort of reversed-reversed (double reversed) English Sicilian with a tempo up.
Crossing fingers...

Yes I tried e3 too, but it transposes too often. 1.e3 ...c5, 2. what? c4 gets into english symmetrical, whilst d4 gets into queen's opening, quiet lines. Or 1.e3...e5 and I get a French exchange.
1.Na3 is awful: 1...e5! 2.e4 ... Bxa3! I now got 2 camels on the a file soon they become meat for Black, moreover I gave up a knight, I do like knights.
1.g4? 1...d5 and game over.
1. b4 !? could be interesting as it denies 1...c5 the classical Black push, but engines drop it to -0.25...


Post of the year. Already. For so many reasons.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #16 - 02/23/10 at 13:35:19
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I thought to be the only nuts here, but I'm damn wrong!

I think a3 and h3 can be played only by people, who like me, need the girls to be aquainted by a friend, because I get scared to say "hello".
What a rotten pussy am I...

Yes, I tried several other stuff..."waiting useful" moves like c4, but then you still give your opponent informations...he knows he can only share the center say with 1...e5 or 1...c5 or simply he can copy my moves c5, Nf6, Nc6...don't you guys hate to be followed closely when driving on the road?

Damn, I need something different, something more extreme.
Black has to get full freedom of action, he can do as much as he wants, then I can follow his plans and then I strike him when the opportunity comes...when I play Black I'm strong as iron and sooner or later a3 or h3 should come also useful!

You mean 1...g6 is strong, let's just treat it as a rev.Benko: 1.a3...g6, 2. e4 Bg7, 3. Nf3 ...c5, 4.Nc3/Bc4 I play a sort of reversed-reversed (double reversed) English Sicilian with a tempo up.
Crossing fingers...

Yes I tried e3 too, but it transposes too often. 1.e3 ...c5, 2. what? c4 gets into english symmetrical, whilst d4 gets into queen's opening, quiet lines. Or 1.e3...e5 and I get a French exchange.
1.Na3 is awful: 1...e5! 2.e4 ... Bxa3! I now got 2 camels on the a file soon they become meat for Black, moreover I gave up a knight, I do like knights.
1.g4? 1...d5 and game over.
1. b4 !? could be interesting as it denies 1...c5 the classical Black push, but engines drop it to -0.25...
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #15 - 02/22/10 at 20:05:33
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Bibs wrote on 02/22/10 at 07:35:39:
Don't get this at all.

It's like your bus arrives. 
But you decide, 'Nah, don't think so. I'll get the next one instead'.


Hm, take a look at that impressive (to my - weird? - mind) Karpov - Illescas-game I posted in the thread "Tarrasch with black and white" in the 1.d4 d5-section. There you can see how a sophisticated waiting policy unfolds. Karpov played a2-a3 - only superficially a no-move. Now it was black to move. Illescas used it with Be7-f8, which slightly weakens the command on f6 and so at the end Qd8-d7 wasn't possible.
You may laugh on this reflections and call it overstretched. But make up your mind a bit. 
I have the feeling, that if you would not conceed slight or severe tactical mistakes in a game against Karpov (I don't know how strong you are - I quite surely would lose that simple way), that would be the way he walks to outplay you. I believe, these are the sublte reasons, why a position slides in the orcus.
So, to use your metaphore, it is not like taking this bus or the next, because these busses allways take the same routes. It's much more of choosing between own feet, bicycle, motorcycle, car, bus, train, ballon, propeller plane, jet, jumbo or even a bungy-rope - depending on the traffic situatiation and how the street is built and how the wheather is etc and with you in the driver's seat... and sometimes it's like the Chinese saying: If you are in a hurry, take the detour...

TN wrote on 02/22/10 at 04:40:28:
I've been doing some opening study lately, and I came to the conclusion that 1.d4 is clearly the best move because White can now play the Semi-Slav with an extra tempo. This gives White a strong initiative, even if Black doesn't play ...d5. The Semi-Slav is completely equal as Black, so the extra tempo has to give White an advantage.


Studies allways help. And so I'm not surprised that you uncovered the chess solution: That's why the Colle-Koltanovski-Opening dominates the international scene. It crashes through what ever black does - e3-e4xd5 - Bxh7+ - win.
To save our beloved game, we in the woods secretly founded the "rimsters connection (copyright)". Deliberately we assault the basics with the rimster moves a2-a3 or h2-h3. Doing so we generously give the first move to black who now can try to win with a reversed Colle - what a feeling. But we do so only to show the white's lead in development will be decisive anyway. 
For the adventurous players we have the more active h2-h4 in the pipeline or the restraining a2-a4 Grin

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/22/10 at 14:02:06:
Wasn't the original premise of this post that 1.a3 and 1.h3 avoid theory?

So, playing theory-heavy positions such as the Chebanenko as Black seems counterproductive to the argument.

 
I don't feel, that's the right way to sum it up. To avoid theory does not mean to throw away all the knowledge about the center an development etc. As once for Réti and Nimzovich it is infact the unchangeable core of the game. To avoid all theory would really mean to pass over all knowledge, to make your living only on the edge. Simply impossible, as a knight on the rim only commands two to four squares in comparison with eight in or near the center, likewise it is with the queen, the bishop and normall the rook too to some extend (okay, on an cleared board he commands fourteen sqaures from ervery position on the board).

So again it is a game of information - to me it is quite impressive that KID is nearly in a better shape than the KIA which should be up due to the extra move. But in reality you may find variations, where black is better preparded due being a move down. You can find it in one of my earlier posts.

Not to be misunderstood. I don't call 1.h3 to be ready to achive an oscar. It does nearly nothing for white, as it commands only one new square. There is no move with a lesser result. So it by far can't stand the richness of 1.e4 (comanding at once 10 new squares - as does 1.e3...) or 1.d4 (9). But as posted there are some meager effects to the good anyhow. And the more you push against it with black the more you risk to rush over the edge. Quite normal chess.
White is not obliqued to play the pawns in the center. As Réti wasn't (but his 1.Nf3 at least touches four new squares) any other is, but he is even allowed to push his rimsters. 

And then he can try to swing back in black's openings, after browsing through the heavy theory (as you called it), and there use the extra move. Don't forget, that black quite regularlly survives even the heaviest opening blows 1.e4 or 1.d4.
Theoretically 1.h3 doesn't work in the sense of winning, I think (1.d5!), but neither does it loose. But a substantially stronger player would win a match against a weaker because he has a better feeling for the pros and cons of the moves. That's what I learn from playing with my chess pupils - I allways loose Grin

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/22/10 at 14:02:06:

Even 1.Na3 is better than 1.a3 or 1.h3, but why not just 1.c3 or 1.e3?


1.e3 is absolutely okay - see above, 1.c3 too but theoretically to a lesser degree. With 1.Na3 you again touch the "Reflex-Theorem". What to do after 1...e5? Is 2...Bxa3 a threat? Damages the white structure but conceeds the bishops. But black has the opportunity, to play for a closed position to tame the bishops and give a friendly environment for the knights. Possible? Don't know. Does white have to play 2.b3 or, with Alekhine in mind, 2.Nc4?
But take that idea with black. I once played 1.d4 Na6 2.e4 c6. I think, it's called De Bruyckers Opening. Now 3.Bxa6 will not damage black's structure cause there is 3...Qa5+ possible after d2-d4 has weakened the a5-e1-diagonal. 4.Nc3  Qxa6 Nevertheless white can play this, the queen isn't too pretty on a6. But perhaps 4.c3 is better?! (fluid pawns)
This again shows what I mean. It's all about the informations. So 1.c3 e5 2.g3 d5 and only now 3.Na3
But you may laugh on me, I think in the black version the second player can better accomodate to that as white in the reverse version because white has yet shown more informations (g2-g3 was played)...

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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #14 - 02/22/10 at 15:10:05
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Yeah, I originally acknowledged TN's facetiousness, but then I looked at some of the other comments and realised not everyone seems to get that and deleted my comment (before posting it).



As an aside, 

When was the last time a strong player suggested that Black was the passive side, as the OP suggests?  Even as far back as Nimzovich, passive play was known to be bad play, regardless of color.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #13 - 02/22/10 at 14:28:26
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SF, TN may well have been 'joking'.
That said, with chess players, on a chess forum, it is not always easy to tell. Ho hum.
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #12 - 02/22/10 at 14:02:06
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Wasn't the original premise of this post that 1.a3 and 1.h3 avoid theory?

So, playing theory-heavy positions such as the Chebanenko as Black seems counterproductive to the argument.   

Anyway, even though there are some fairly strong players who trot this out occasionally doesn't make it objectively good or appealing to me.   

There are better ways to play as White if you want to avoid theory.  Even 1.Na3 is better than 1.a3 or 1.h3, but why not just 1.c3 or 1.e3?
  
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Re: a different approach: 1.a3 and 1.h3
Reply #11 - 02/22/10 at 07:35:39
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Don't get this at all.

It's like your bus arrives. 
But you decide, 'Nah, don't think so. I'll get the next one instead'.
  
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