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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What do Good Players Think About? (Read 6868 times)
Playslikefish
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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #14 - 03/08/10 at 00:43:17
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Finished Carlisle Open-interesting (paired above my rating in every round and went 1win 1lost and 2 draws). Found something on Groot in a Dan Heisman Book very helpful. Never realized how concrete chess player are in their thinking.

I followed Markovich's recommendation about checking squares and really didn't hang too many pieces-naw not true just didn't get caught. Kind of helpful anyway. My ICC handle is Playslikefish.

Mike
  
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TonyRo
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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #13 - 03/02/10 at 15:31:21
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I too think about wacky ideas and examine fanciful variations on my opponents time. Looking for latent tactical ideas and understanding where you'd most like your pieces to sit during your opponents time will definitely make your time on the clock well spent, since you already have a rough idea of where your pieces should go and what some typical tactical and strategical ideas are.
  
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Markovich
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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #12 - 03/02/10 at 15:15:17
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Playslikefish wrote on 02/27/10 at 17:38:55:
Please no wise comments (maybe a few ). I am 60 and I am playing in the Carlisle Open next Saturday, first tournament in 35 years.

I have looked at chess books about candidate moves and all that. Do good player really act that. Is there an actual thought process they discipline themselves into doing?


If you're talking about Kotov's Think Like a Grandmaster, no, nobody actually thinks like that.  Kotov was either a fool or a hypocrite.  A little of both, I suspect.

But one important thing to do when it's not your turn to move, besides thinking of positional considerations, is to entertain fantasies about what the pieces could do if they could move twice, move through other pieces and the like.  Doing this leads to some surprising tactical ideas.  Unless you're playing at a fast time limit, one thing you should not do when it's your opponent's turn to move is worry about what move he will play.  Easier said than done, I know.

If you're really a fish, then be sure when it's not your turn to review the locations of all the pieces and the squares covered by each.
« Last Edit: 03/02/10 at 17:15:51 by Markovich »  

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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #11 - 03/02/10 at 13:58:36
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Girkassa wrote on 03/02/10 at 10:55:06:
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One piece of advice that I received early on and still find useful:  You think about tactics and calculate concrete variations when its your turn to move.  You think about the positional considerations and long term plans, on your opponent's time.



I think I first saw this in one of Kotov's books. My memory is that it was in the much-maligned, but seminal Think Like a Grandmaster.
  
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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #10 - 03/02/10 at 12:38:19
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Thinking like a tree quite a good way to lose on time I'd think Wink
(being disciplined enough to make yourself really think of anything relevant on your opponents time is a good start. I'm certainly not.).
  
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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #9 - 03/02/10 at 12:20:35
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Girkassa wrote on 03/02/10 at 10:55:06:
Quote:
One piece of advice that I received early on and still find useful:  You think about tactics and calculate concrete variations when its your turn to move.  You think about the positional considerations and long term plans, on your opponent's time.


Interesting advice! Never heard of it and never thought of it, but it makes sense. Thanks!  Smiley


Funny enough, this was something I long tried to do without ever having read it anywhere. It just made sense to me.
  

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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #8 - 03/02/10 at 12:12:37
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Girkassa wrote on 03/02/10 at 10:52:54:
There is, however, one situation where the process of candidate moves has been helpful: When calculating a very concrete combination, and my opponent has a choice between 2-4 moves. I think it was Dvoretsky who gave the following advice, and in my experience, it works:

If you think the combination works, then you should start by calculating the reply you think is weakest, so that you can fully concentrate on the "main" line after eliminating all other defences.

If you think the combination does not work, then you should start by calculating the reply you consider the strongest. If you can't find a way to beat it, you condemn the combination and have saved time and energy since you haven't considered the alternative defences.


I think I saw this advice in Tisdall's "Improve Your Chess NOW!", but Dvoretsky may have it too. In "Attack and Defence" maybe? I think I follow it to some extent in tactical position, but not very consciously.

The advice to think about general plans on the opponent's time and concrete variations on one's own time is attributed to Botvinnik by both Kotov and Dvoretsky.
  

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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #7 - 03/02/10 at 10:55:06
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Quote:
One piece of advice that I received early on and still find useful:  You think about tactics and calculate concrete variations when its your turn to move.  You think about the positional considerations and long term plans, on your opponent's time.


Interesting advice! Never heard of it and never thought of it, but it makes sense. Thanks!  Smiley
  
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Girkassa
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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #6 - 03/02/10 at 10:52:54
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I have tried to think like a tree, but it never worked for me. Nor did any other formlua. What I do experience quite often is how my good moves afterwards can be explained by formulas, but then I can't find a formula to explain why it worked in that particular position.

There is, however, one situation where the process of candidate moves has been helpful: When calculating a very concrete combination, and my opponent has a choice between 2-4 moves. I think it was Dvoretsky who gave the following advice, and in my experience, it works:

If you think the combination works, then you should start by calculating the reply you think is weakest, so that you can fully concentrate on the "main" line after eliminating all other defences.

If you think the combination does not work, then you should start by calculating the reply you consider the strongest. If you can't find a way to beat it, you condemn the combination and have saved time and energy since you haven't considered the alternative defences.

Of course, this approach requires that you have an intuitive feeling about whether the combination works, AND what the strongest defence is. That is, of course, not always the case. Still, this advice has helped me more than once.
  
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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #5 - 03/01/10 at 17:33:20
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the less you have to think in chess, the better you are at it!
  
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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #4 - 02/28/10 at 21:34:10
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If you really want an answer: Read Adriaan DeGroot - Thought and Choice in Chess. He compared real masters (world champions and candidates) with players of different strength and was a master himself playing for the Netherlands in the chess olympics. You have to go through some scientific psychology (which isn't agreable for most people because for what the heck) and if you've done this you should continue with Simon & Chase: Perception in Chess, 1973. It's hard to read for a layman, but I'm absolutely sure it's worth the time spent. It doesn't make you a better chess player. But you really understand then why only time seriously hanging over the board makes you a better player (and not only a better player).
  

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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #3 - 02/28/10 at 17:37:58
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I suspect that the top players instinctively know what the candidate moves are.  I'm pretty sure that they  don't go through some sort of formal process of checking the imbalances, looking at the pawn structure, trying to improve their worst piece, etc. 

That kind of formulaic appraoch has never worked for me.  Every time, I've tried to follow one of those "how to think" books, its been a mess.  I either end up worrying too about following the process and not enough about the tactics, or I fall behind on time.

Half the time, you can't follow the "rules" they give you anyway because they contradict each other or simply don't apply in your particular situation.  And sometimes there isn't one best move, whether to put the Bishop on c4 or b5 may simply be a matter of taste.   

I think GM Anatoly Lein said it best, when asked whether one should follow the "tree" approach recommended by Kotov in How to Think Like a Grandmaster.  His response was something along the lines of "A tree?  I don't think like a tree."

So what do you do?  You study enough chess that you get a feel for the position and/or the pawn structure and have a basic idea where the pieces should go and what the plans are.  (In this regard, Andy Soltis's Pawn Structure Chess was an eye-opener for me.  Euwe's middlegame books are also good.)  Then you check the tactics to make sure you don't step in a hole along the way.   

One piece of advice that I received early on and still find useful:  You think about tactics and calculate concrete variations when its your turn to move.  You think about the positional considerations and long term plans, on your opponent's time.

Good luck.



 
  
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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #2 - 02/27/10 at 21:14:36
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Tal thought about how to pull a hippopotamus from the mire.
  
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Re: What do Good Players Think About?
Reply #1 - 02/27/10 at 20:44:51
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Answer: Women, Informant, their career, the family, love, music, endgames, tactics and finally why they are such a great chess player.

Generally speaking, it doesn't matter which thought processes you use as long as you consistently find good moves and don't play any careless errors over the board.

Also, the question is too ambiguous since the definition of 'good player' from person to person varies from a rating of 400 to a rating of 2700.  Wink
  

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What do Good Players Think About?
02/27/10 at 17:38:55
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Please no wise comments (maybe a few ). I am 60 and I am playing in the Carlisle Open next Saturday, first tournament in 35 years.

I have looked at chess books about candidate moves and all that. Do good player really act that. Is there an actual thought process they discipline themselves into doing?
  
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