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Poll Question: Can you beat a computer in a Q v R ending?
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Yes    
  12 (16.9%)
Probably    
  27 (38.0%)
No    
  32 (45.1%)




Total votes: 71
« Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 03/04/10 at 14:15:53 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen? (Read 29074 times)
Grimmell73
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #29 - 07/23/16 at 17:18:04
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I should have done this years ago, but my database is now on Google Cloud as a free Chessbase compressed-file download.  I can't post a link here, because Chesspub requires me to have 5 posts before I can do that, but if you Google "Grimmell Queen Rook Harassment" you'll find my youtube channel with no trouble, and the comments on the Harassment defense and several of the other videos contain the link to my full database. 

I notice that a couple other people have put up videos on this ending that "borrow" from the database (which was first published in 2009), but the best thing is to download and work through the whole database, rather than watch any videos, including mine.  In the first few database entries I put advice from cognitive psychology on how to study the material so that it sticks in your head for a lifetime.  Enjoy!  DG
  
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lhl
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #28 - 06/13/16 at 09:59:20
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I managed to find a place from where Grimmell's database on Queen v Rook can be downloaded. You can download it from here:

http://tinyurl.com/gn78n5h
  
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lhl
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #27 - 06/13/16 at 09:43:16
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cheese111 wrote on 06/03/16 at 15:22:33:
I have it and should be able to upload it as a PGN later.

Sounds great!
  
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cheese111
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #26 - 06/06/16 at 03:59:24
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Is there any way to upload a CBV here? Uploading the database as a pgn won't work (I don't think) because there are some text files linking to various game files.
  
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cheese111
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #25 - 06/03/16 at 15:22:33
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I have it and should be able to upload it as a PGN later.
  
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lhl
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #24 - 06/02/16 at 04:25:09
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Does anyone know where to get Derek Grimmell's database on Queen v. Rook? In his videos on youtube Grimmell mentions that it can be downloaded from his site "queenversusrook", but that site doesn't seem to exists anymore..(?)
  
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BenkoFan
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #23 - 02/09/16 at 15:23:11
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I think I would struggle against best defence
  
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Paddy
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #22 - 02/05/16 at 17:32:05
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chk wrote on 08/25/10 at 07:56:58:
H-HH wrote on 05/27/10 at 12:31:52:
Chessbase just put a complete database about this ending: http://chessbase.com/cbm/cbm135e/cbm135-12/QvR.cbv


Just started to read through this 'course' and I must say I'm very pleased with the approach used (quite human) and the (obviously enormous) effort made by Mr. Derek Grimmell to compile this database and also come with crystal-clear results and advice.

From what I've read this far (still in the introductory phase) I highly recommend it. Also thanks to Mr. Grimmell if you happen to be reading this..  Smiley


Unfortunately the above link no longer works, and a web search proved fruitless. Can anyone help?

I'm aware that Derek has posted some fascinating stuff on this ending at YouTube, but the chessbase file would be really useful.

Edit: I've just been sent the cb file by "one of us" here at the forum and I've pmed a duly grateful response.
« Last Edit: 02/05/16 at 22:45:08 by Paddy »  
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chk
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #21 - 02/01/11 at 14:25:15
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You are welcome, and welcome to the forum as well!

It looks like you've put a huge effort on this, I cannot even imagine how much time it must have took you.. Smiley
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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Derek Grimmell
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #20 - 02/01/11 at 03:14:48
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Thanks for the kind words about my database.  I can beat the computer almost every time; there are still a few positions I can't think of a way to classify and those make for a very difficult time.  Overall, I'm pleased at how the advice in the database seems to be holding up in general practice.  My next project, if ever, is to finish creating a customized tablebase that permits the computer to enter some of my recommended side-lines so we can all get practice against them.  A little variety would help; frankly, beating the Third Rank Defense is now bloody boring!  Harassment defenses are far more interesting.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #19 - 12/05/10 at 18:11:46
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Averbakh and especially Capablanca were writing before tablebases. Why would anyone trust them on such "tablebase-intensive" endings as Q vs R? Maybe the updated Averbakh DVD has been checked with tablebases, I'm not sure.

Averbakh is really good at explaining technical endings, but I always take his concrete analysis with a pinch of salt and double-check it with the oracle (though of course his books are magnificent as massive collections of human-only analysis).
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Akilea
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #18 - 12/05/10 at 17:39:39
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Papageno wrote on 03/27/10 at 15:42:54:
Bowen wrote on 03/05/10 at 20:19:37:
Best explanation I have seen is by Averbach in his classic tome!

Sorry to disagree with you on this subject. While Averbach has good explanations in general, his choice of examples on KQkr looks not very helpful.

I found a far better coverage in Karsten Müller/Frank Lamprecht's Fundamental Chess Endings. They just give three very fundamental and useful positions for the winning side: 1) defending king in the corner, Philidor 1777 2)second rank defense, 3) third rank defense. (Maybe someone else, perhaps John Nunn, has described this approach before.) In any case, it's far better than Averbach.

After understanding how to break the third rank defense I was able to beat the tablebase – I played the KQkr-bot on ICC – for the first time. Smiley


Capablanca has described rook vs queen ending fairly detailed in his book.
  
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chk
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #17 - 08/25/10 at 07:56:58
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H-HH wrote on 05/27/10 at 12:31:52:
Chessbase just put a complete database about this ending: http://chessbase.com/cbm/cbm135e/cbm135-12/QvR.cbv


Just started to read through this 'course' and I must say I'm very pleased with the approach used (quite human) and the (obviously enormous) effort made by Mr. Derek Grimmell to compile this database and also come with crystal-clear results and advice.

From what I've read this far (still in the introductory phase) I highly recommend it. Also thanks to Mr. Grimmell if you happen to be reading this..  Smiley
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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MNb
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #16 - 06/01/10 at 16:14:42
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I actually have had the endgame once against an opponent of equal strength. Though I expected a tough job I found it remarkably easy.
But against a computer? No way.
  

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Schroeder
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Re: Can you win against a lone Rook with your Queen?
Reply #15 - 05/31/10 at 02:12:56
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Two days before the database appeared on the chessbase server, I had the position with my king cut off on the first rank (discussed under "Evaluating Initial Positions" and "Walking The Edge") on the board:

Schiele, Lars (2052) - Schroeder,Christoph (2237)
Hamburg championship (4th round, 25.05.2010)
position after White's 66th move

* * * * * * * *
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*

66.-Qh3+ 67. Kd4 Qe6 68. Rc2 Kd1 69. Rg2 Qd6+ 70. Ke3 Qc5+ 71. Kf3 Qd5+ 72. Kg3 Ke1 73. Kh2 Kf1 74. Rg4 Kf2 75. Rf4+ Ke3 76. Rf1 Qh5+ 77. Kg3 g5+ 78. Kh2 Qh4+ 79. Kg2 Qg4+ 80. Kh2 Ke2 81. Rg1 Qh5+ 82. Kg2 (?)

More resilient is 82. Kg3. With 5 minutes on the clock, I am not sure if I would have found the following line: 82.-Qe5+ 83. Kg2 Qd4! (Zugzwang) 84. Kh2 Kf2 85. Rg2+ Kf1 86. Kh3 Qh8+  winning the rook.

82... Qh4! (Zugzwang) 83. Rh1 Qg4+ 84. Kh2 Kf2 0-1






  
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