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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Against the e6 Sicilians (Read 27105 times)
ChevyBanginStyle
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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #18 - 03/09/10 at 16:25:35
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Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 16:01:40:
MNb wrote on 03/09/10 at 02:22:26:
Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 02:03:06:
5...d5 in which line exactly? I might just wheel out the GPA when I'm in a bad mood, so I'm curious...

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.g3 and 5.Be2 both can be met with 5...d5.


Well if 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Be2 d5 is less than equal for White that's a revolution in the theory of our dear Classical Dutch too. I can imagine Simon Williams' reaction to someone claiming that White can play e3 and a3, allow an instant ...e5, and still have chances for advantage! Wink In the GPA line White is basically playing the Classical Dutch with 1,5 extra tempi (...a6 may or may not be useful).


As someone who seriously considered the Bird for a brief period, I have to say one of the problems of reversed Dutch systems is that White's "counterplay" is off rhythm. Tongue Quality sometimes counts more than quantity in the tempo game. For instance, it's funny to me that 1.f4 d6 2.e4 d5 is probably better for Black than 1.e4 d5.

I don't think White is necessarily worse, but if he plays as though he's better, he'll certainly be worse. Smiley
  
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Stigma
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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #17 - 03/09/10 at 16:01:40
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MNb wrote on 03/09/10 at 02:22:26:
Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 02:03:06:
5...d5 in which line exactly? I might just wheel out the GPA when I'm in a bad mood, so I'm curious...

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.g3 and 5.Be2 both can be met with 5...d5.


Well if 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Be2 d5 is less than equal for White that's a revolution in the theory of our dear Classical Dutch too. I can imagine Simon Williams' reaction to someone claiming that White can play e3 and a3, allow an instant ...e5, and still have chances for advantage! Wink In the GPA line White is basically playing the Classical Dutch with 1,5 extra tempi (...a6 may or may not be useful).
  

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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #16 - 03/09/10 at 09:25:10
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There's no need to play an anti sicilian or something that gives a theoretical advantage, it's just that the open main lines didn't appeal to me. My impression always was that black has an easy and safe game and white really needs to be very accurate to gain some advantage or initiative. That probably isn't true from a theoretical standpoint, but it's how things turned out in my games.
Generally I want to play the open, being a 1900-2000 club player I think I should work on this type of positions to expand my knowledge. 
So maybe I should invest in some beating the sicilian book, but I really don't want to start learning masses of Khalifman analysis, that's just more theory than necessary.
  
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ChevyBanginStyle
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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #15 - 03/09/10 at 07:47:22
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MNb wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:37:54:
Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:22:33:
How about finding lines that combine relatively little theory and attacking chances within the open Sicilian?

That makes much more sense imo.

Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:22:33:
For example, against the Taimanov: either the "Experts" repertoire with Be3/Bd3 or the "silent but violent" line with Be2, Be3, a3 and often f4 and g4 from "Dangerous Weapons: The Sicilian".

Against the Kan, maybe 5.Nc3 b5 (Qc7) 6.g3. There is a tricky gambit line there that has been played by Guseinov, for example.

The transpositions to the Scheveningen bother me.
Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:22:33:
The Scheveningen is a problem though; Keres attack would be logical but not exactly low-theory.

But here I have two answers. The first one is the old-fashioned 6.g4 h6 7.g5 hxg5 8.Bxg5 and the second one 6.Be3 Be7 7.g4. The choice depends somewhat of the rest of the Open Sicilian repertoire.

Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:22:33:
If you absolutely need and anti-Sicilian I wouldn't rule out the Grand Prix. Gawain Jones makes a case for the likes of 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 d5 4.Nf3 and 3...a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.g3 or 5.Be2 in his Starting Out book. I don't think White is really better, but the lines are definitely playable.

In fact White has some problems to maintain equality after 5...d5. Therefore I ruled out the GP myself a few years ago.


Shocked

(I should note that the latter continuation invites a transposition to a Taimanov or Scheveningen via 5.d4.)

Compare:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1261245709/45

MNb's frustration with my posts in that thread has some context now. Grin

Sorry, I couldn't resist!
  
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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #14 - 03/09/10 at 03:35:02
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It seems to me that I more often come across GMs playing that h3 stuff in the Keres than h4+Rg1.
  
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MNb
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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #13 - 03/09/10 at 02:22:26
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Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 02:03:06:
5...d5 in which line exactly? I might just wheel out the GPA when I'm in a bad mood, so I'm curious...

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.g3 and 5.Be2 both can be met with 5...d5.

Btw I also like the suggestion 6.g4 h6 7.h3 against the Scheveningen. White just plays Be3, Qd2, 0-0-0 and pushes all the kingside pawns in English fashion. Of course stuff like this is equal, but nobody can convince me that it is less interesting and more difficult to learn than any Anti-Sicilian.
  

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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #12 - 03/09/10 at 02:05:09
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There is a lot of good advice so far.  Here is my own contribution.

I have generally played the Grand Prix after 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 and 2...d6 3.f4 (though 3.d4!? is also quite interesting here, with transposition to the Chekhover as demonstrated in some Gad Guseinov games).  However, I find that the Closed lines simply give White no advantage against 2...e6! and so I also recommend switching to the Open with 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.d4 etc.  I generally angle toward the fianchetto lines (as discussed in Nigel Davies's Taming the Sicilian -- and see more below), but lines with d4 followed eventually by f4 are also interesting for the Grand Prix player (as discussed in Dangerous Weapons: The Sicilian, for instance).

I often have opponents play 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.Nf3 d5?! (which can also arise via the Two Knights French), but White seems to get a big advantage, as shown in a Dana Mackenzie video at ChessLectures.com:

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Popov, Mikhail"]
[Black "Savchenko, Alexei"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C00"]
[TimeControl "240+2"]
[Annotator "Practice"]
[PlyCount "23"]

1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Nc3 c5 4. exd5 exd5 5. Bb5+ Nc6 6. Qe2+ Be7 (6... Ne7 7. Ne5 Qd6 8. d4 cxd4 9. Bf4 dxc3 10. Nxc6 cxb2 11. Rd1 Qxf4 12. Nxe7+ Kd8 13. Nxd5 Bb4+ 14. Nxb4+ Kc7 15. Nd5+ Kb8 16. Nxf4 a6 17. Qe5+ Ka7 18. Be2 f6 19. Qxb2 Bf5 20. Rb1 Rab8 21. Qb6+ Ka8 22. Bxa6 Be4 23. Ne6 Rhc8 24. Nc7+ Rxc7 25. Qxc7 Re8 26. Be2 Bc6 27. Rb3 {1-0 Mackenzie-Beilin, 2008}) 7. Ne5 Qd6 8. d4 cxd4 9. Bf4 dxc3 10. Nxc6 Qxf4 11. Nxe7+ Kf8 12. Ng6+ 1-0

Following 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 e6 3.Nf3 Nc6! White should play 4.d4 or 4.Bb5!? since 4.g3?! is not so good due to 4...d5! 5.exd5 exd5 and Bg4 will be annoying.

Joel Benjamin's "Anti-Sicilian" series at Jeremy Silman's old site is very interesting: 
http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_shrtcts/archive.html
The whole repertoire may interest you, but see especially parts four through eight for dealing with an early ...e6.  

Against 3...Nc6 Benjamin advocates 4.Bb5!? (I prefer the simple 4.d4 now though I've tried 4.Bb5), and against the 3...a6 set-up -- where Black plays for an early b5 and Bb7 pressuring the e4 pawn -- he advocates a Closed line (with Nf3), playing d3 to defend the pawn and going for the f4 break by playing Ng5 (and then to h3 if necessary).  

I'm not crazy about that, so I have analyzed the d4 lines where White fianchettoes the Bishop and sacs the e-pawn if necessary, as played by Tal and more recently by Gad Guseinov:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/kenilworthian/2006/12/two-knights-sicilian-pa...
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2006/anti-paulsen.htm
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/kenilworthian/2007/08/richard-pallisers-fight...
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2007/anti-paulsen.htm
In comments to the last blog post, ChessPub member Katar suggested some very interesting improvements for White.

Hope that helps.  But 2...e6! has really made me wonder why I don't just play the Open lines directly:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/kenilworthian/2010/01/five-easy-pieces-open-s...
  
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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #11 - 03/09/10 at 02:03:06
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MNb wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:37:54:


Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:22:33:
The Scheveningen is a problem though; Keres attack would be logical but not exactly low-theory.

But here I have two answers. The first one is the old-fashioned 6.g4 h6 7.g5 hxg5 8.Bxg5 and the second one 6.Be3 Be7 7.g4. The choice depends somewhat of the rest of the Open Sicilian repertoire.

I just noticed Meat wrote in his first post that the Scheveningen wasn't a problem for him. Still, interesting suggestions. Last time I checked White wasn't scoring so badly with something simple like 6.g4 h6 7.Bg2 or 7.h3 either.

MNb wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:37:54:

Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:22:33:
If you absolutely need and anti-Sicilian I wouldn't rule out the Grand Prix. Gawain Jones makes a case for the likes of 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 d5 4.Nf3 and 3...a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.g3 or 5.Be2 in his Starting Out book. I don't think White is really better, but the lines are definitely playable.

In fact White has some problems to maintain equality after 5...d5. Therefore I ruled out the GP myself a few years ago.


5...d5 in which line exactly? I might just wheel out the GPA when I'm in a bad mood, so I'm curious...
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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MNb
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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #10 - 03/09/10 at 01:37:54
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Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:22:33:
How about finding lines that combine relatively little theory and attacking chances within the open Sicilian?

That makes much more sense imo.

Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:22:33:
For example, against the Taimanov: either the "Experts" repertoire with Be3/Bd3 or the "silent but violent" line with Be2, Be3, a3 and often f4 and g4 from "Dangerous Weapons: The Sicilian".

Against the Kan, maybe 5.Nc3 b5 (Qc7) 6.g3. There is a tricky gambit line there that has been played by Guseinov, for example.

The transpositions to the Scheveningen bother me.

Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:22:33:
The Scheveningen is a problem though; Keres attack would be logical but not exactly low-theory.

But here I have two answers. The first one is the old-fashioned 6.g4 h6 7.g5 hxg5 8.Bxg5 and the second one 6.Be3 Be7 7.g4. The choice depends somewhat of the rest of the Open Sicilian repertoire.

Stigma wrote on 03/09/10 at 01:22:33:
If you absolutely need and anti-Sicilian I wouldn't rule out the Grand Prix. Gawain Jones makes a case for the likes of 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 d5 4.Nf3 and 3...a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.g3 or 5.Be2 in his Starting Out book. I don't think White is really better, but the lines are definitely playable.

In fact White has some problems to maintain equality after 5...d5. Therefore I ruled out the GP myself a few years ago.
  

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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #9 - 03/09/10 at 01:22:33
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How about finding lines that combine relatively little theory and attacking chances within the open Sicilian?

For example, against the Taimanov: either the "Experts" repertoire with Be3/Bd3 or the "silent but violent" line with Be2, Be3, a3 and often f4 and g4 from "Dangerous Weapons: The Sicilian".

Against the Kan, maybe 5.Nc3 b5 (Qc7) 6.g3. There is a tricky gambit line there that has been played by Guseinov, for example. The calm-looking 6.Be2 is also surprisingly critical judging from the amount of coverage in Hellsten's Kan book.

Or... you can study the relevant chapters of De la Villas excellent "Dismantling the Sicilian". He recommends the critical English Attack vs the Taimanov and 5.Nc3/6.Bd3 vs the Kan. Probably less work than Khalifman!

If you absolutely need and anti-Sicilian I wouldn't rule out the Grand Prix. Gawain Jones makes a case for the likes of 2.Nc3 e6 3.f4 d5 4.Nf3 and 3...a6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.g3 or 5.Be2 in his Starting Out book. I don't think White is really better, but the lines are definitely playable.
  

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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #8 - 03/09/10 at 01:11:51
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Meat wrote on 03/08/10 at 12:58:07:

How about some gambit lines? Can you favorably transpose to some Morra or Wing gambit line? I figured the e6 player wants a safe and secure game and I'd like to not comply with that.

No. All the reliable defences in the Morra Accepted involve ...e6 at some point. After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b4 cxb4 4.d4 Black can chose between the French Wing's Gambit (...d5) or a setup with ...d6.
Frankly I think you are wasting your time. 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 is the way to go.
  

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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #7 - 03/08/10 at 18:11:47
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If you want an Advance French, here's a neat trick:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c3 Ne7!? 4.d4 cxd4 5.cxd4 d5 6.e5 Nbc6 7.Bd3 Nf5

  
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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #6 - 03/08/10 at 17:22:33
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Another interesting try is 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3!? as recommended in Dangerous Weapons: Anti-Sicilians.

Here White may well play d4 later, perhaps prepared with c3.
  
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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #5 - 03/08/10 at 14:24:28
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TN wrote on 03/08/10 at 11:30:07:


3.c3 d5 4.e5 Nc6 5.d4 Nh6 (the Advance French is not at all dangerous for Black), since 4.ed5 is known to be equally harmless. 


Basically true, though I don't think I would say that the Advance French is "not at all dangerous."  But there is no need for Black to accede to a French, since 4.e5 d4 is perfectly viable.  In some lines Black sacrifices the pawn on d4 in return for excellent activity and pressure against White's perpetually backward d-pawn.  This line is considered at length in Palliser's Beating the Anti-Sicilians.

I've been playing the 2...e6 Sicilian quite a bit recently with a view toward 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6.  In one ongoing game my opponent played 3.Nc3 instead and I played 3...d6.  I was curious to see if he would try 4.Bc4, which doesn't look very promising to me but clearly is a game of chess.  Instead he played 4.d4 and we were back in the Scheveningen.  So I'll have to wait to find out if 4.Bc4 has any real punch. 

Personally, also, if 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 dxc4 4.c3 were played, I would prefer the more ambitious 4...dxc3 to the merely adequate 4....Nf6.
  

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Re: Against the e6 Sicilians
Reply #4 - 03/08/10 at 13:54:38
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Meat wrote on 03/08/10 at 12:58:07:
- 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. Bb5
Black can hold back with Nc6, but even if he doesn't, I don't really see what bite the Rossolimo has when black can play Nge7.
- g3 -Systems
I don't usually play fianchetto systems in the open, but I might look into this.
- 3. d3 seems just like a worse closed Sicilian (without f4) to me, indeed rather wimpy. I might give 3. b3 a go.
- 3. c3 and c4
Indeed the given lines look undesirable.

How about some gambit lines? Can you favorably transpose to some Morra or Wing gambit line? I figured the e6 player wants a safe and secure game and I'd like to not comply with that.


If White plays 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.c3, then Black can play safely with 4...Nf6 to transpose to the c3 Sicilian. I'm guessing this would probably would be a common response, especially since Delchev recommends 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c3 Nf6 in The Safest Sicilian.

Delchev covers the Wing Gambit with 3.b4 cxb4 briefly in his book. He recommends an approach with 4...Nf6 analogous to the c3 Sicilian: 4.a3 Nf6 5.e5 Nd5 6.axb4 Bxb4 7.c3 (7.c4!?) Be7 8.d4 d6; 4.d4 Nf6 5.Bd3 d5 6.e5 Ne4!
  
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