MartinC wrote on 03/10/10 at 16:41:26:


I don't know why everyone is so afraid of the Keres attack. What's wrong after black plays 6...e5?

Kyle, which line is Tal-Larsen?

Isn't g4 in the Classical met with ...d5 ?

ChevyBanginStyle wrote on 03/12/10 at 07:50:50:

I don't get this, as ...a6 and ...Qc7 are very normal moves in the Classical Scheveningen, while a3 usually is only played as answer to ...b5. I admit that this transposition is not attractive to Scheveningen players who want to do without one or two of these moves and there are plenty of them.
Still I find it hard to believe that any player who prefers an aggressive setup like the Sozin or the Keres feels attracted to the Classical Scheveningen with a3. Possibly this shows nothing more that I haven't seen Dangerous Weapons in the Sicilian, which is true.

Another tricky transposition is 6...Nf6 (iso 6...a6) when Van Delft suggests the not so convincing 7.f4 d6 8.Qf3 Be7 9.0-0-0 0-0 which is another line of the Scheveningen, well known from Tal-Larsen, match 1965.

Perhaps most challenging is just 7.Bd3 after both 6...a6 and 6...Nf6. Playing a Classical Scheveningen with a tempo less cannot attract Black.

ChevyBanginStyle wrote on 03/11/10 at 04:33:59:


Allowing the English Attack vs. the Taimanov might be most attractive after all: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 Qc7 6.Be3 a6 7.Qd2 Nf6 8.0-0-0 Bb4 9.f3 and now 0-0 10.g4 b5 11.g5 Ne8!? Those knights on d6 and e5 seem to stop White's attack completely.
I have posted this line twice before, but I haven't seen a convincing antidote yet (and yes, I have tried to find one myself too).

I don't know whether the ...d6 anti Sicilians occur more often than ...e6 ones, but I'm pretty sure the Rossolimo has a very strong reputation compared to most others.  I don't really know why Black would allow it if he's going to play e6 anyway.

Btw, the most common move after 6.Be3 is 6...Nf6, which seems fine to me. White can't really play 7.g4 and the English attack hasn't scored terribly well recently in the following line:

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Be3 Nf6 7.f3 a6!? (less common, but perhaps better than 7...Be7) 8.Qd2 Be7 9.0-0-0 0-0 10.g4 Nd7!? 11.h4 Ne5 and Black seems to be doing well here.

Schaakhamster wrote on 03/11/10 at 04:47:16:


LOL but it's the Sicilian after all! You can play the Dragon against everything or get serious.

MNb wrote on 03/11/10 at 02:12:29:


Yes, the situation is not as rosy as I may have described it. Black should be prepared for the English Attack main lines with a6 if he plays that move order. It appears to be a trade-off between the Sozin and English Attacks. Black may want to allow the main line Sozin with 6...Nf6 to play his favorite lines against the English Attack.

I am inclined to think that out of the three major "attacks" in the Scheveningen (Keres, English, and Sozin), Black can avoid entering two of them in their purest form through his chosen move order, but never all three:

normal Scheveningen: Keres
Taimanov 6.Be3 a6: English
Taimanov 6.Be3 Nf6: Sozin
Najdorf Scheveningen: English, Najdorf Sozin (i.e. main line Sozin in Najdorf, but no Velimirovic Attack et al)

If Black does not want to commit the queen to c7 in the Scheveningen, I think he should play 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 d6. This is covered in Chapter 3 of Burgess' The Taimanov Sicilian. The nice thing about this variation is that it can be reached by 2...e6, 2...Nc6, and 2...d6. It is used often by professionals but not well-known among amateurs probably since not much is written about it in opening books on either the Taimanov or Scheveningen. (Burgess is the only book I know that covers it in any detail.)

What's also nice about this move order is that there are promising independent ideas against two of the the sharpest systems, the Keres (g4) and the Sozin (Bc4). Black does not have to transpose to a main line Sozin. He can comfortably deviate before committing to Nf6:

6.Be3 a6 7.Bc4 Qc7 (7...Nge7 is another independent option) 8.Bb3 Na5 9.0-0 b5 10.f4 is a line given by Burgess. He claims 10...Nf6 is a favorable transposition to the Sozin and gives another line from Rogers: 10...Nxb3 11.axb3 Bb7. I think that cuts down on the theory significantly, so this is probably a great move order against people who only play the Sozin.

I think Black should see 6.g4 as an opportunity. AFAIK the repertoire books do not cover this line very well, although it is respected by professionals. IIRC 6.g4 wasn't included in the Keres chapter in Experts vs. the Sicilian and Aagaard recommended it in a deviations chapter with very brief coverage. A lot of strong players play Black in this position, so I think someone could score a lot points through some independent research on this line.

Really I think the main disadvantage of this move order for many players is practical rather than theoretical. Black needs to know 5.Nb5 and many Scheveningen players do not know these Taimanov lines well. If you like the Sveshnikov, you can just play 5...Nf6 6.N1c3 d6 7.Bf4 e5 8.Bg5 a6 9.Na3 b5 and be done with it. Otherwise, Black needs to learn both 6.c4 and 6.Bf4 after 5.Nb5 d6. 6.Bf4 e5 is a favorable Kalishnikov, but it is a completely different stucture to learn and may be a problem for people without exposure to these types of positions. The Hedgehog positions with 6.c4 are very good for Black and Delchev outlines a method whereby Black aims for the d5 break to equalise. Also there is the gambit approach with the immediate 6...Nf6 7.N1c3 a6 8.Na3 d5!?. Black needs to know two different types of positions against 5.Nb5, but if Black knows a few concrete lines, I think he can get a good game.

Through this move order, Black can get independent (and IMO favorable) play against the Sozin and Keres approaches at the cost of learning a couple of Taimanov lines that are not very dangerous but offer completely different middlegame structures. However, this is not the end of the story! Black can even avoid the Taimanov lines with 2...d6/Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6/d6, but then he must contend with 5.c4 which is probably not as comfortable for Black as the Taimanov lines. 5...e5 6.Nb5 would transpose to a Kalishnikov, but White has the extra option of 6.Nc2 which may just be favorable for White. Hedgehog options seem less favorable for Black as well, since White does not have to play Nb5-a3. Maybe Black's best is to transpose to the Maroczy Bind of the Dragon with 5...g6 or 5...Nf6 6.Nc3 g6. So you could also use a Maroczy Bind Dragon/Scheveningen combination as well! 

I usually invite the Keres as Black.  It's challenging, but I don't think its as scary as people make it out to be.  I think Kasparov once commented that, after the first 5 moves of the game, Black has done nothing wrong, so why would you think that 6.g4 should be winning?  Basically, though, I take on the Keres because the alternatives are unattractive.

I don't like using the Taimanov move order to reach the Scheveningen.  This is not because of Nb5 -- after all, I'm not playing Karpov  -- but because the Taimanov move order commits the Black Queen to c7 too early and in some of the lines of the Scheveningen, the Black Queen is better on d8.  If you are interested in why I think so and can find it, I posted on this topic some time ago.

I don't think the e6, d6, Nc6 set-up is any better than the Keres proper after 6.g4, although I've never really looked at it.  (SF -- This Pseudo-Keres is under B54 in ECO) I wouldn't mind 6.Be3/7.Bc4 too much because I'm willing to play the Sozin with the QN on c6, but I also don't see a reason to encourage this.  If you play this move order, I suspect you would get Bc4 Nc6 a lot more than you might otherwise.         

I don't use a Najdorf move-order because all my anti-Sicilians are based on 2..e6 and I wouldn't know what to do after 2..d6.  But even more so because I'm just too lazy to learn the Bg5 Najdorf. 

Lately, however, I've been thinking I might just do that because it may be the best way to play for a win against 6.Bg5 in the Scheveningen.  After 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Bg5, Black can equalize with the old 6..Be7 7.f4 h6 8.Bh4 Nxe4 trick.  But the resulting ending is just that, equal, and I'm thinking that there might be times when having 6..a6 up my sleeve would be nice.



(edited)   

MartinC wrote on 03/10/10 at 14:57:02:


I remembered why I didn't consider that move order "worthy": I like to postpone the deployment of the queens knight. There are some lines in the Scheveningen where deploying it to d7 is interesting (although playing Nc6 is always possible).

Complicated, this game we call chess 

MartinC wrote on 03/10/10 at 10:22:33:


That is what I don't call convincing. 

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 03/09/10 at 20:02:11:


Kasparov "solved" that problem by using the Najdorf move-order. Other tries to avoid the Keres attack aren't convincing. Picik your poison, I would say  .

I believe I read somewhere that Grandmaster Repertoire 6 - The Sicilian Defence by Lubomir Ftacnik would be a Najdorf: Scheveningen style.   

On Scheveningen with a6: Dynamics of Chess Strategy by Jansa contains some of the best explanation about that. It is openingtheory on it most subtle.

Prichett is about Scheveningen without a6. Basicly it is two books in one: an encyclopedian approach about the Scheveningen without a6 and a repertoire approach for the Keres Attack, English Attack and others. I don't find it a very convincing book, perhaps due to this two-sided approach. 

Hellsten's book on the Kan is amazing but a lot of material for the "least" theoretical mainline Sicilian. He is also a proponent of the more hedgehodge-like interpretation of the Kan. 

I think the Taimanov is a great base for exploring the e6 Sicilians. One major point in its favor is its adaptability to transpositions and various move orders (e.g. 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Nc3 Nc6!; 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 e6; etc.). IMO it's also a less intimidating way to delve into Scheveningen systems than the Najdorf (especially when considering the resurgence of 6.Bg5). Many strong players use the Taimanov move order to bypass the Keres attack proper, though some people still play 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 d6 6.g4 which was recommended in Experts vs. the Sicilian IIRC.

Taimanov books:

The Safest Sicilian by Alexander Delchev: a must - provides complete repertoire for 2.Nf3 e6 (Palliser's Fighting the Anti-Sicilians supplements the repertoire with White's other second move choices. Rogozenko's book is also good.)

Chess Explained: The Taimanov Sicilian by James Rizzitano: another recent book that briefly covers all the major Taimanov lines, including the pure Taimanov lines with Nge7

The Taimanov Sicilian by Graham Burgess: older work, but covers a lot of tricky transpositions in the Taimanov; useful reference if you want to branch out to the Scheveningen for instance, as the above move order I mentioned is considered in one of the chapters

Winning with the Sicilian by Mark Taimanov: by the master himself - good for inspiration, provides background on the development of Taimanov's approach to the Sicilian - covers the Classical Sicilian and Kan as well, so good for broad understanding of the Sicilian

Play the Sicilian Kan by Johan Hellsten: an excellent recent book - not the Taimanov but there are a number of similarities and transpositions in the Kan

Knowledge of the Scheveningen is useful sometimes (Scheveningen structures are recommended against g3 lines in Delchev for instance): Emm's Play the Najdorf: Scheveningen Style and Prichett's Starting Out: Sicilian Scheveningen are the most recent books that I've used for reference. Pedersen's Easy Guide to the Sicilian Scheveningen covers some tranpositions from the Be2 main lines with Qc7 (Classical Scheveningen) that are not found in the above books. Lastly, Kasparov and Nikitin's book is a classic source.

Well, if you have played the Caro-Kann, then the obvious choice would be the Sicilian Kan. 

On a serious note though, I can't speak for the French, but  the Kan does seem like the Sicilian which  is most Caro like in attitude and approach. Having said that, one of the leading Caro-Kann players, Dreev, opts for the Classical Sicilian. Another logical choice might be another e6 Sicilian such as the Taimanov aka the Safest Siclian