Stefan Buecker wrote on 03/24/10 at 23:27:34:


I think time is ripe to replace the "?" after 6.Nxf7 with "!?" or maybe even "!" in particular in light of Sloughters convincing analysis of 9.0-0! on it's own thread elsewere on this forum. One important point is that the former assumption that 9...c6 10.d4 Qf6 should be favorable for Black seems to be totally overturned by Sloughters 11.Qd1!+=.

So, wheter to prefer the Lolli with 6.d4 or the Liver with 6.Nxf7 nowadays seem to be more a matter of taste than a matter of objective assessment of strenght. It may be, however that the slight white plus for both lines is easier to convert in practise in the Lolli than in the Liver.

SWJediknight wrote on 11/07/12 at 22:43:04:



What is clear is the White had to meet 11...Qh4 with 12.Nb6ch (Not Nxc7ch) but Black still seems somewhat better after 12...Ke7 13.Qf7ch Kd8 14.Nxa8 Bd7.

It can be predicted that 9.a3? will ultimately be regarded as a weak move bordering on a blunder especially because White had four better moves i.e. 9.d4?! Nxc2ch 10.Kd1 Nxd4 = or 9.Qe4, 9.O-O, or 9.Bb3.

SWJediknight wrote on 11/07/12 at 00:02:28:


9.a3?! Nxc2ch 10.Kd1 Nxa1 11.Nxd5 (I gave the wrong move order. I forgot to include this) Kd6 12.Re1 Qg5 13.d4 Qg4 14.dxe5ch Kc6 15.Ne7ch =

or 11...Kd6 12.Re1 c6 13.Rxe5 Bd7 14.Rxd5ch +/-

or 13.Rxe5 Qh4? 14.Re4 +/-

Stefan Buecker wrote on 03/24/10 at 23:27:34:


I don't like a3 because this is an extremely sharp position where every tempo counts. Not surprisingly this leads to a quick draw.

5.exd5 Nxd5 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 7.Qf3ch Ke6 8.Nc3 Nb4 9.a3?! (Both developing moves 9.O-O and 9.Bb3 are better while 9.d4 Nxc2ch 10.Kd1 Nxd4 looks equal---again because White focusses on the developing move d4, not the wasted tempo 9.a3. It turns out in this line that White has just enough attack to get a quick draw by repetition:

9.a3 Nxc2ch 10.Kd1 Nxa1 11.Re1 a6! (or Bd6 12.Bb5ch Ke6 13.Bc4) 12.Rxe5 Bd6 13.Bb5ch! axb5 14.Qh3ch Kc6 15.Qc3ch =

I think 13.Nxc8+ may well be White's best practical chance after the dubious 9.a3, but Black still stands better. 13...Rxc8 14.d3 may cause problems for Black if Black doesn't know the theory, but after 14...Kd8! (as correctly given by others) 15.Qd5+ Bd6 16.Be3, White is going to spend a bit of time picking up the knight on a1.   There are many alternatives for both sides in Master Om's long variations, but White should not get enough for the exchange.

Even if White can make 13.Nxc8+ work there's also 11...c6!? as suggested by both Master Om and Stefan Bücker, which is also better for Black, e.g. 12.Nc7+ Kd7 13.Nxa8 Qf6 14.Qe3 Qg6.

My current opinion of the critical lines is as follows:

A) 9.0-0 c6 10.d4 Qf6 (10...exd4!? 11.Bf4 Qf6 12.Ne4 Qf5 13.Ng3 with a very messy position, probably about equal) 11.Qe2 Ke7 12.f4 (12.dxe5 Qg6 13.Rd1 is roughly equal) 12...Kd8 13.fxe5 Qg6 and now 14.Nxd5 and the riskier 14.Qd2!? are highly unclear, with equal chances.

B) 9.Qe4 c6 10.a3 Na6 11.d4 Nac7 12.f4 Kf7 13.fxe5 Be6 14.0-0+ Kg8, as previously mentioned, is probably the critical line after 9.Qe4.  I think chances are roughly equal here, as Black's h8-rook is shut out of play and White has two pawns and a strong centre in return for the piece.  The line 12.Bf4 Kf7 13.Bxe5 Be6 14.Qf3+ Kg8! is similar, though perhaps a slightly improved version for Black, e.g. 15.Ne4 Qh4 (15...h5!? 16.0-0 h4 17.h3) 16.Bd3 b5.  Nonetheless I would hesitate to take Black in an OTB game here too.

I also had another look at those 14.0-0 Nf6 lines, and concluded that after 15.Bxf6 gxf6 (or 15...Qxf6!? 16.d5 Nxd5) Black emerges with an edge, but not -+ as originally suggested.

Imho, Mr. Om has missed some points in his analysis of 6.Nxf7 variation. After his suggestion 11...Qh4 12.Nb6+ Ke7 13.Qf7+?! Kd8 14.Nxa8 Bd6? 15.Qxg7 Rf8 Black has a draw, but not more. 16.d3 Qg4+ (16...Bg4+ 17.f3 Qf2 18.Bg5+ Kc8 19.Be7! =) 17.Qxg4 Bxg4+ 18.f3 Rxf3 19.Bg5+ Kd7 20.gf Bxf3+ 21.Kc1 Bxh1 22.Kb1 =
But in this line the both sides have their improvements. 14...Bd7! is stronger and secures edge for Black, but White improves earlier. 13.Nxc8+! and game is far from clear. E.g. 13...Rxc8 14.d3 Kd8 15.Be3 or 15.Qd5+

Stefan Buecker wrote on 03/31/10 at 00:14:24:

Is the move 8....Bb4+ a Zwischenschach ? . The Idea is beautiful now i understand. This moves threats c3 which shuts Nc3 as the best move in many lines!!.