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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C00-C19: The French Defence by Vitiugov (Read 91157 times)
Gilchrist is a legend
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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #49 - 05/15/10 at 14:03:23
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There must be a line drawn about minor sidelines. Just because Vitiugov does not cover 1. e4 e6 2. Nh3 does not mean it is not a repertoire book. To be honest, anyone over 2200 ELO should be able to work out a minor sideline such as 1. e4 e6 2. Nh3 over the board without any previous knowledge. For a 1700 ELO to fault this omission is silly, and is not due to any arrogance of Vitiugov. I have already seen 1800 ELO players complaining on Quality Chess's blog when they received GM Repertoire 2, and complained how Avrukh did not cover 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. d5 Ne4?! and other dubious minor sidelines. If you cannot at least try to handle these replies over the board or on your own, do not buy the books.
  

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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #48 - 05/15/10 at 13:31:28
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Stigma wrote on 05/15/10 at 13:08:41:
Is there a new trend that "repertoire" is just a buzzword you add in to boost sales, with no real meaning?! Moskalenko's book did the same thing (one distinctly incomplete chapter even subtitled "A repertoire for White and for Black") and regardless of the objective merits of the books, this is frankly cheating. "Repertoire" implies an attempt at completeness, period!

I suppose if Vitiugov presents high-level analysis of the critical lines the lack of completeness can be forgiven, so derdua's criticism is even more serious.

For strong players today a database and an engine are probably enough to deal with non-critical sidelines; they may even decide to not waste prearation time and just work them out at the board if they should arise (if they are toothless enough).

Anyone who wants book coverage of White's sidelines in the French can consult a real repertoire book like Watson's Play the French 3, or Psakhis' three Batsford volumes (descdendants of his older "The Complete French").


Psakhis four books covers all lines and are not repertoire books.
  

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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #47 - 05/15/10 at 13:08:41
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Is there a new trend that "repertoire" is just a buzzword you add in to boost sales, with no real meaning?! Moskalenko's book did the same thing (one distinctly incomplete chapter even subtitled "A repertoire for White and for Black") and regardless of the objective merits of the books, this is frankly cheating. "Repertoire" implies an attempt at completeness, period!

I suppose if Vitiugov presents high-level analysis of the critical lines the lack of completeness can be forgiven, so derdua's criticism is even more serious.

For strong players today a database and an engine are probably enough to deal with non-critical sidelines; they may even decide to not waste preparation time and just work them out at the board if they should arise (if they are toothless enough).

Anyone who wants book coverage of White's sidelines in the French can consult a real repertoire book like Watson's Play the French 3, or Psakhis' four Batsford volumes (descdendants of his older "The Complete French").
« Last Edit: 05/15/10 at 14:47:31 by Stigma »  

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derdudea
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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #46 - 05/15/10 at 11:40:47
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I´m still in the process of making up my mind on this book and you definitely are right that we should not judge a book by what we want it to be. My last post on a very specific subvariation of the advance system was just to show what to expect from Vitiugovs book and what not.

So an interim result for judging the value of the book is to find out about it´s goal and the target audience. Regarding this, the book is for French specialists  between 2000 and maybe 2400 ELO. It´s not a complete repertoire on any level of play and contains excellent parts with very interesting original analysis and sometimes even novelties in often played mainlines of specific systems (e.g. in the chapter on 3.Nd2 c5 with Qxd5) even as parts that show primary a lack of interest by the author. 

So you have to look for the gold nuggets and be aware of the superficial parts. It looks like some mistakes come from the fact, that Vitiugov widely ignores corrchess games (and the chesspub files), so be aware of his analysis especially in the wild winawer line he researches.

E.G: After reaching the tabya of this line after
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Sc3 Lb4 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Lxc3+ 6.bxc3 Se7 7.Dg4 cxd4 8.Dxg7 Tg8 9.Dxh7 Dc7 10.Se2 Sbc6 11.f4 Ld7 12.Dd3 dxc3 
one White main line is 13.Dxc3 Sf5 14.Tb1 d4 15.Dd3 0–0–0 16.Tg1 Sa5 The best move according to Vitiugov, Wei Ming gave it a "!" on chesspub, too.

An important position with about 500 games in my database and still 140 after 16....Sa5.

17.g4 Ba4! is most popular continuation now and Vitugov analyses 
18.c3, where he gives 18....Bc2!, which arguably is less precise than 18....Nb3!, analysed bei Wei Ming in the comments on the game Smirnov - Arslanov 2009.
Nevertheless, 18.gxf5 is the move exclusively played in 2009 and it is not even mentioned.

Vitiugov tries to take the sting out of any criticism by the following remark: "Naturally, the sharpest variation with 13.Qxc3 requires an urgent repair by White move by move, but I think that on the pages of this book, it would be sufficient for me to give you an idea about the outlines of the arising positions and themes"
But is that really enough in such a concrete and sharp line with a very strong target audience in mind?

By the way, looking at his analysis it´s not tough for White to improve:
17.Rb4 a6 18.g4 Nh4 (Se3 should be better) 19.a4 f6 20.exf6 e5 21.f7 ends -+ with Vitiugov following Steflitsch - Poldauf 2002. Had he looked at the correspondence games Ward - Bongiovanni 2003 or Teichmeister - Makawov 2006 or even at Rybkas assessment of the position after 20....e5, he should have noticed that Black is done after 21.fxe5 ! Nc5 22.Rc4.

So the my final assessment for now is: You have to search for the gems and be well aware of the serious flaws this book has. It´s a collection of interesting ideas, but not a reliable repertoire on any level of play. It´s value comes from the fact, that rarely such a high-level player comments on the black side of the French.


 
  
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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #45 - 05/15/10 at 11:04:36
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True, I hear a lot of low rated players complaining about the GM Repertoire series as well as Vitiugov's book about how minor lines are not covered. Books geared towards advanced players should generally only cover advanced lines.
  

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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #44 - 05/15/10 at 07:13:36
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You can't have your cake and eat it.

If you want a full guide on how to beat all of White's harmless sidelines, you should buy ECO C or the Starting Out book.

Vitiugov's book is a serious book for players up to GMs, so time cannot be wasted on harmless sidelines. Especially when the jury is still out on many of the fashionable lines. 

I personally do not judge an author by their personal characteristics but rather by the quality of his (or her) work, and, when it comes to the buying decision, the target audience of the product.
  

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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #43 - 05/14/10 at 20:34:51
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Markovich wrote on 05/14/10 at 12:20:08:
I don't think that Vitiugov deserves criticism for not supplying a comprehensive French repertoire book.  Take this book for what it's worth.

Any author or publisher subtiteling his book "A complete Black repertoire" should get his share of criticism for conciously negating even the attempt to offer a complete black repertoire. He should even get it, if his book is excellent in many other respects - and Vitiugovs work is excellent if read the right way. 

Ignoring the less testing sidelines is OK, if the repertoire is excellent and deep in the critical mainlines. If you have to offer a repertoire for 2300+ players and good enough to be a guideline for corrchess players, it is understandable that analysing nothing but c4 - lines in the exchange is a logical part of this concept - why give up space for lines that even don´t pretend to fight for any white advantage?

Vitiguov begins to fullfill my high hopes when starting with the advance variation. His treatment of his (and my) line of choice 4.c3 Qb6 5.Nf3 Nc6 reveals a lot about the high standard of his work and about the way you have to deal with it´s oddities 

His choice of critical variations, explanations and original analysis he gives it if he thinks it´s necessary is fascinating and at the same time I am astonished how he deals with other lines.; 
As an example, have a look at the line 6.Be2 cxd4 7.cxd4 Nh6 where 8.Bxh6 is not the standard move, but critical for Black´s plan. 
After 8....Qxb2 the author analyses the most effective way to counter White´s best line 9.Nbd2 gxh6 10.0-0 Nxd4, now giving a satisfying line for Black after 11.Rb1 Nxe2 12.Qxe2 Qc3(N). The most often played 11.Nxd4 is not mentioned at all. A reason to be embarrased? Not exactly, since 11.Rb1 is simply the much better move while 11.Nxd4 Qxd4 12.Bb5+ Kd8 does less for White´s developement and gives Black the preferable game. Vitiugov simply is not interested to explain this, you should get it by yourself, its not a critical line from his point of view.
While Vituguov examines only the best line for White in the 9.Nbd2 mainline (played 68 times in my biggest database), he is much more fascinated by 9.Nc3 (3 games), which he gives a !? and calls "a very original solution" - and adds an analyses on 9....Qxc3 (the "fighting line", played in Mantovani - Yermelin, Kallithea 2008, improving on the game) and 9....Nxd4, showing in detail why it is leading to a forced draw. 

This is simply a French book on the lines critical from the perspective of a young 2700 grandmaster, who uses the French as a regular secondary weapon and who enriches this lines with quite a lot of explanations and original analysis if necessary from his point of view.  This is a view on "our" opening every French player must love to have, even it is not always easy to follow.

If you want to play the French on a 2200+ level or in corrchess, or if you simply want to get to the truth the near as possible, buy Vitiugovs book. If you want to get didactically excellent help to play your next club tournament against 1700 competition, buy McDonalds book. If you love the French, get both.
  
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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #42 - 05/14/10 at 16:07:56
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Markovich wrote on 05/14/10 at 12:20:08:
At the end of the day, the test of a book such as this should be the value of the material that it does present.  And if you don't like it, don't buy it.


Your reasonable response makes too much sense, it will never work. Smiley
  
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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #41 - 05/14/10 at 13:34:35
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Markovich has some good points. I bought it and quite like it. But I wish that Vitiugov had covered Winawer 7...Qc7 or 7...0-0 after 7. Qg4, or the MacCutcheon. Not his fault of course, though. I bought Flexible French by Moskalenko as a complement to Vitiugov's book, since Moskalenko covers the MacCutcheon and some other Winawer lines.
  

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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #40 - 05/14/10 at 12:20:08
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I don't give two whoops in a holler whether some chess author is an arrogant little snot, if his chess ideas are any good.

I don't think that Vitiugov deserves criticism for not supplying a comprehensive French repertoire book.  Take this book for what it's worth.

Frankly I would much rather see space devoted to the Winawer Poisoned Pawn than to all possible White sidelines, most of which are readily picked up in other sources or in data bases.  The Rubinstein also is an important system and quite challenging to White, so I can't blame Vitiugov for looking deeply into that, either.  At the end of the day, the test of a book such as this should be the value of the material that it does present.  And if you don't like it, don't buy it.
  

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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #39 - 05/14/10 at 11:50:42
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Monte Carlo method (selecting variations random)  is maybe his method... Grin

Before laughing too much, look at his profile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Vitiugov

http://interviews.chessdom.com/nikita-vitiugov


impressive Elo  isn't ?...

Yes, maybe, young and arrogant..

Vitiukov appears in one chesspub update here: http://www.chesspublishing.com/content/2/nov08.htm ; ... about the PP Winawer

  

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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #38 - 05/14/10 at 00:50:35
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 05/13/10 at 14:13:10:
matzo wrote on 05/13/10 at 07:18:11:
I am burning to know what he recommends on page 189 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.Qg4?  Castle or poisoned pawn variation?  What lines?



Vitiugov analyses only the Poisoned Pawn main line chaos where Black sacrifices a load of pawns and castles queenside. He omits 7...0-0 completely.


Nice.  I like how this guy chooses what to analyze.
  
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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #37 - 05/13/10 at 14:13:10
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matzo wrote on 05/13/10 at 07:18:11:
I am burning to know what he recommends on page 189 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.Qg4?  Castle or poisoned pawn variation?  What lines?



Vitiugov analyses only the Poisoned Pawn main line chaos where Black sacrifices a load of pawns and castles queenside. He omits 7...0-0 completely.
  

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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #36 - 05/13/10 at 08:33:51
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[quote author=6061766071606165040 link=1269771899/31#31 date=1273680909] 

Vitiguov promises a complete black repertoire but shows little Interest in providing us amateurs with one, especially when White chooses sidelines. His remark on 1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Nc3 d4 4.Nb5 is worth the be read: 
"White has played 4. Nb5?, too. Fortunately this book is not an opening enzyclopedia and I do not feel obliged to analyze moves like that."
I had to read it several times and still can´t believe this kind of intolerable arrogance. 


Grin
There is no variant: 1.e4 e6 2. h3... Big omission  Angry Intolerable arrogance !
  
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Re: The French Defence by Vitiugov
Reply #35 - 05/13/10 at 07:18:11
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I am burning to know what he recommends on page 189 4.e5 c5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 Ne7 7.Qg4?  Castle or poisoned pawn variation?  What lines?

  
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