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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Classical Rauzer (Read 24282 times)
Ametanoitos
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #22 - 08/09/10 at 20:12:58
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I prefer to respect every source available and not take anything for granted.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #21 - 08/09/10 at 17:35:30
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Well, I believe 6...g6 has been viewed as at least slightly better for White by every theoretical work I've ever seen.  Perhaps I can be forgiven for doubting that Dzindzi's Lab volume xxx has any particular significance.
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #20 - 08/09/10 at 17:03:30
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I'd like to hear from the specialists here what do they think that is Black's good attempt to fight against the R-R. I remember Dzindzi proposing g6 in one of his DVD's. Is it so bad?
  
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MNb
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #19 - 05/14/10 at 00:26:58
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12...a6 with the obvious idea 13...b5 has been played.
There is also 12...h6 idea 13.Bh4 Qh5 but the typical 13.h4 looks murky. Perhaps Black can combine the two ideas with 12...h6 13.h4 and only now ...a6.
This all seems uncharted territory, thus providing a good opportunity to develop your own ideas and test them in practice.
  

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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #18 - 05/13/10 at 16:26:57
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Also, what about this line? 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 Be7 8.
O-O-O O-O 9. f4 Nxd4 10. Qxd4 Qa5 11. Kb1 Rd8 12. Bc4 Bd7 13. Bb3 Bc6 14. f5 exf5 15. Rhf1 Bxe4 16. Nxe4 fxe4 17. Bxf6 Bxf6 18. Rxf6 gxf6 19. Bd5 e3 20. Qxf6 Rf8 21. Qg5+ Kh8 22. Qf6+ Kg8 23. Qg5+ draw. Anyone know if black has alternatives in this?
  
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BobbyDigital80
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #17 - 05/12/10 at 09:37:38
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kylemeister wrote on 04/03/10 at 15:22:48:
BobbyDigital80 wrote on 04/03/10 at 12:42:52:
kylemeister wrote on 03/31/10 at 18:12:23:
Well, it seems that the traditional main lines (e.g. 8. 0-0-0 0-0 9. f4 Nxd4 10. Qxd4 Qa5 11. Bc4 Bd7 12. e5 and 9...h6 10. Bh4 e5) have long been generally considered slightly better for White. 

A GM I think of as being fond of it for Black is Alex Fishbein.

Black can play 11...Rd8 in that first line you gave I think.


Indeed that is one of the possible deviations.  I believe old theory considered it to be clearly better for White, but Richard Palliser recently predicted that it will soar in popularity.  That doesn't seem to have happened yet (I think I found two instances in the last six weeks of TWIC).

I like the ...Rd8 line more than the ...Bd7 line because Black gets to keep the two Bs.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #16 - 04/03/10 at 15:22:48
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BobbyDigital80 wrote on 04/03/10 at 12:42:52:
kylemeister wrote on 03/31/10 at 18:12:23:
Well, it seems that the traditional main lines (e.g. 8. 0-0-0 0-0 9. f4 Nxd4 10. Qxd4 Qa5 11. Bc4 Bd7 12. e5 and 9...h6 10. Bh4 e5) have long been generally considered slightly better for White. 

A GM I think of as being fond of it for Black is Alex Fishbein.

Black can play 11...Rd8 in that first line you gave I think.


Indeed that is one of the possible deviations.  I believe old theory considered it to be clearly better for White, but Richard Palliser recently predicted that it will soar in popularity.  That doesn't seem to have happened yet (I think I found two instances in the last six weeks of TWIC).
  
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BobbyDigital80
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #15 - 04/03/10 at 12:42:52
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kylemeister wrote on 03/31/10 at 18:12:23:
Well, it seems that the traditional main lines (e.g. 8. 0-0-0 0-0 9. f4 Nxd4 10. Qxd4 Qa5 11. Bc4 Bd7 12. e5 and 9...h6 10. Bh4 e5) have long been generally considered slightly better for White. 

A GM I think of as being fond of it for Black is Alex Fishbein.

Black can play 11...Rd8 in that first line you gave I think.
  
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #14 - 04/01/10 at 13:36:39
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Maybe the most interesting line is: 7. Qd2, a6  8. 0-0-0 Bd7
  

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MNb
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #13 - 04/01/10 at 13:13:11
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Stigma wrote on 04/01/10 at 02:59:24:
In the specific line you mention MNb, 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 a6 10.f4 b5 a couple of ideas with h4 seem dangerous: 11.Be2 Bb7 12.Bf3 0-0 13.e5 (or even 13.h4!?) 13...Bxf3 14.exf6 gxf6 15.gxf3 fxg5 16.Ne4 d5 17.h4 and the Black king is getting ripped open.


Black doesn't have to castle. 10.f4 b5 11.Be2 Bb7 12.Bf3 Rc8 and Qc7 look better. Sure Black's kingside gets torn apart again, but then Black is playing an improved version of the good old Botvinnik system! Pair of bishops compensates for the weakened pawn structure. Compare Suetin-Botvinnik, URSch 1952.

Stigma wrote on 04/01/10 at 03:18:28:
I looked up what De la Villa (himself a Classical player!) had to say on these lines
6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 a6 10.Kb1! b5 11.e5!

10...0-0 (iso b5) 11.f3 Nxe4! (exclam mine) or 11.f4 b5 12.Bxf6 Bxf6! (again mine) 13.Qxd6 Qxd6 14.Rxd6 Bxc3 15.bxc3 Bb7 16.Bd3 hmmm, White seems to have an endgame edge indeed. And after 11.f4 h6 there is the thematical piece sac 12.h4!? see Sulskis-Arutinian, Petrosjan Mem 2004.
Thanks.
  

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Stigma
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #12 - 04/01/10 at 03:26:44
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kylemeister wrote on 04/01/10 at 03:20:26:
Stigma wrote on 04/01/10 at 02:59:24:
Using the same move order, 8...a6 9.f4 Bd7!? seems to be the next hot line on GM level.


But that's just an old main line by transposition.


Sure. I just noticed on my database that it has scored well lately. Within the last year Vorobiov, Ivanchuk, Greenfeld and Mamedov have used it. So it's a serious fallback option if the currently popular Be7/Nxd4/a6 setup gets into trouble.
  

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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #11 - 04/01/10 at 03:20:26
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Stigma wrote on 04/01/10 at 02:59:24:
Using the same move order, 8...a6 9.f4 Bd7!? seems to be the next hot line on GM level.


But that's just an old main line by transposition.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #10 - 04/01/10 at 03:18:28
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I looked up what De la Villa (himself a Classical player!) had to say on these lines, and he avoids the f2-f4 main lines in various ways (all exclamation marks his):

6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 0-0 10.f3!
6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 a6 10.Kb1! b5 11.e5!
6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 a6 9.Bxf6 gxf6 10.Bc4! (or 9.f3.)
  

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Stigma
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #9 - 04/01/10 at 02:59:24
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I haven't seen Kramnik play the Classical since year 2000 or something. How many decades will it take for people to stop using his patronage of it back then as an argument, I wonder...

Current top player who use it occasionally include Ivanchuk, Mamedyarov, Nakamura and Morozevich. More steady current GM users : Malakhov, Dreev, Jobava, Miroshnichenko, Baklan, Kozul, Nijboer, Gupta etc. etc. For years it seems to have been particularly popular in certain countries, like Israel, USA and the former Yugoslavia.

In the specific line you mention MNb, 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 a6 10.f4 b5 a couple of ideas with h4 seem dangerous: 11.Be2 Bb7 12.Bf3 0-0 13.e5 (or even 13.h4!?) 13...Bxf3 14.exf6 gxf6 15.gxf3 fxg5 16.Ne4 d5 17.h4 and the Black king is getting ripped open.

Using the same move order, 8...a6 9.f4 Bd7!? seems to be the new hot line on GM level.
  

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MNb
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #8 - 04/01/10 at 01:56:25
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Markovich wrote on 03/31/10 at 19:36:09:
I think comments like 'play the Svesh instead' are facile.  There's a whole pile of chess in the Classical, and personally I'm not prepared to say it smells bad.


Neither am I. Last time I looked at it from White's point of view I had no idea how to meet 6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 a6 10.f4 b5 or 10.Bc4 0-0. When I asked about it I received the answer (I paraphrase): "what do you expect, Kramnik relies on this".
« Last Edit: 04/01/10 at 12:44:46 by MNb »  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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