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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Classical Rauzer (Read 24293 times)
BobbyDigital80
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #37 - 10/26/10 at 22:58:07
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Lou_Cyber wrote on 10/26/10 at 13:20:37:
BobbyDigital80 wrote on 10/26/10 at 06:40:55:
Which line do you play against the Rauzer?


I basically went with the recommendations from Experts vs. the Sicilian and additional advice given here in the Sicilian section.


Oh, I mean what line do you (or would you) play as black against the Rauzer? I'm curious since you said you were having problems finding a good line against the classical Sicilian.
  
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Lou_Cyber
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #36 - 10/26/10 at 13:20:37
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BobbyDigital80 wrote on 10/26/10 at 06:40:55:
Which line do you play against the Rauzer?


I basically went with the recommendations from Experts vs. the Sicilian and additional advice given here in the Sicilian section.
  

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BobbyDigital80
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #35 - 10/26/10 at 07:26:50
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BobbyDigital80 wrote on 10/25/10 at 04:36:33:
Günter Amann wrote on 09/14/10 at 18:33:40:
I am studying the classical Rauzer since i want to use it in my games and i am a little bit afraid of the following endgame although it´s given as not dangerous at all in several books.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6
6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nd4 9.Qd4 0-0
10.f4 Qa5 11.e5!? de 12.Qe5 Qe5 13.fe Nd5
14.Be7 Ne7 15.Bd3 b6 16.Be4 Rb8 17.Rhe1 Bb7
18.Rd7 Be4 19.Re4 Nc6 20.Nb5 Rfd8 21.Rd6!
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* 21...Rd6
(21...Rbc8 22.Rc4 Ne5
23.Rc8 Rc8 24.Na7 Rb8 25.Nc6! Nc6 26.Rc6 this position was already analyzed on chesspub but maybe black is even lost in this rook ending? No player including such strong Grandmasters like Miroshnichenko or Baramidze could achieve a draw in this position.22.ed a6 23.Nc7 Rd8 24.Ra4 a5
25.Nb5

White has still presure and black is far away from draw?


What's amazing is that Yermolinsky doesn't mention the 11.e5 line in his book Chess Explained: The Classical Sicilian. How he could omit such a line is inexcusable.


Nevermind, Yermo does mention it. But he just gives a few moves and says Black's fine. Too bad he doesn't go into more detail as this should be considered a main line in the R-R.
  
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BobbyDigital80
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #34 - 10/26/10 at 06:40:55
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Lou_Cyber wrote on 10/25/10 at 08:21:15:
The Classical seems to be underestimated. I am considering to study it from the black side, because
a) i have serious trouble to find something good against it in my white repertoire following Bg5, so I know it can´t be bad for the black side,
b) almost everybody seems to play Bg5, so preparation could be narrowed in comparison to the Najdorf,
c) i am getting a bit tired of my Sveshnikow, especially when playing against weaker players it is difficult to generate winning chances,
d) i still could use my anti-sicilian repertoire following the 2.Nc6 move order.

I just checked my online-book-store. I was surprised that I couldn´t find any actual books or dvds on this topic. There is ofwata No. 12 from the white side, but could anybody give other sources?


Which line do you play against the Rauzer?
  
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MartinC
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #33 - 10/25/10 at 08:58:45
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Well there are some old books. Not so awful as in some cases as a lot of theory of this was worked out when mega popular at strong GM level, and that was a bit back now.

There's a very thorough book by Wells (Batsford I think) which is genuinely old but may still have a fair bit of relevance in places & maybe going cheap.

Chess explained: the classical Sicillian more recent, if of course not super thorough. Still quite nice coverage.

A lot of coverage on this site a little bit back if less recently - but thats because its got less popular in high end games etc. Conclusions not entirely positive perhaps!

Or of course consult databases for what the Classical die hards are playing.

I do have to agree that an opening so natural and so major for so long simply has to be at least playable somehow Smiley
  
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Lou_Cyber
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #32 - 10/25/10 at 08:21:15
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The Classical seems to be underestimated. I am considering to study it from the black side, because
a) i have serious trouble to find something good against it in my white repertoire following Bg5, so I know it can´t be bad for the black side,
b) almost everybody seems to play Bg5, so preparation could be narrowed in comparison to the Najdorf,
c) i am getting a bit tired of my Sveshnikow, especially when playing against weaker players it is difficult to generate winning chances,
d) i still could use my anti-sicilian repertoire following the 2.Nc6 move order.

I just checked my online-book-store. I was surprised that I couldn´t find any actual books or dvds on this topic. There is ofwata No. 12 from the white side, but could anybody give other sources?
  

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BobbyDigital80
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #31 - 10/25/10 at 04:36:33
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Günter Amann wrote on 09/14/10 at 18:33:40:
I am studying the classical Rauzer since i want to use it in my games and i am a little bit afraid of the following endgame although it´s given as not dangerous at all in several books.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6
6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nd4 9.Qd4 0-0
10.f4 Qa5 11.e5!? de 12.Qe5 Qe5 13.fe Nd5
14.Be7 Ne7 15.Bd3 b6 16.Be4 Rb8 17.Rhe1 Bb7
18.Rd7 Be4 19.Re4 Nc6 20.Nb5 Rfd8 21.Rd6!
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* 21...Rd6
(21...Rbc8 22.Rc4 Ne5
23.Rc8 Rc8 24.Na7 Rb8 25.Nc6! Nc6 26.Rc6 this position was already analyzed on chesspub but maybe black is even lost in this rook ending? No player including such strong Grandmasters like Miroshnichenko or Baramidze could achieve a draw in this position.22.ed a6 23.Nc7 Rd8 24.Ra4 a5
25.Nb5

White has still presure and black is far away from draw?


What's amazing is that Yermolinsky doesn't mention the 11.e5 line in his book Chess Explained: The Classical Sicilian. How he could omit such a line is inexcusable.
  
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agropop
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #30 - 10/20/10 at 08:26:17
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Günter Amann wrote on 10/19/10 at 19:17:15:
It seems that also the Kozul Variation and the lines with h6 are very dangerous for black?
It would be interesting which line is recommended by the chesspub experts.
Maybe a theme for one of the next open sizilian updates?

In the 7...a6 8.Qd2 h6 line 9.Nc6 bc6 10.Bf4 d5 11.Qe3 is considered most dangerous for black nowadays. Most recent Kozul's defeat in his pet line was vs Vallejo Pons in last olimpiad, but i don't know to what extent is this game theoretically relevant.
  
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Günter Amann
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #29 - 10/19/10 at 19:17:15
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It seems that also the Kozul Variation and the lines with h6 are very dangerous for black?
It would be interesting which line is recommended by the chesspub experts.
Maybe a theme for one of the next open sizilian updates?
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #28 - 10/18/10 at 10:53:35
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agropop wrote on 10/18/10 at 09:02:33:
There is also Kotronias' interesting 12...b5. Details of this pawn sac and also commented games in the ending you are studing can be found in NIC yearbook 85.

No need to look in the yearbook, Peter Wells dismisses 12...b5?! in his annotations to Motylev-Miroshnichenko (in the ChessPub Archives).
I note that in the eBook it says 11.e5 "is a safe way to try for a win whilst keeping the draw in hand". If I was Black I definitely wouldn't want to play this line! Roll Eyes
  
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agropop
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #27 - 10/18/10 at 09:02:33
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Günter Amann wrote on 09/14/10 at 18:33:40:
I am studying the classical Rauzer since i want to use it in my games and i am a little bit afraid of the following endgame although it´s given as not dangerous at all in several books.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6
6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nd4 9.Qd4 0-0
10.f4 Qa5 11.e5!? de 12.Qe5 Qe5 13.fe Nd5
14.Be7 Ne7 15.Bd3 b6 16.Be4 Rb8 17.Rhe1 Bb7
18.Rd7 Be4 19.Re4 Nc6 20.Nb5 Rfd8 21.Rd6!
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* 21...Rd6
(21...Rbc8 22.Rc4 Ne5
23.Rc8 Rc8 24.Na7 Rb8 25.Nc6! Nc6 26.Rc6 this position was already analyzed on chesspub but maybe black is even lost in this rook ending? No player including such strong Grandmasters like Miroshnichenko or Baramidze could achieve a draw in this position.22.ed a6 23.Nc7 Rd8 24.Ra4 a5
25.Nb5

White has still presure and black is far away from draw?


There is also Kotronias' interesting 12...b5. Details of this pawn sac and also commented games in the ending you are studing can be found in NIC yearbook 85.
  
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Günter Amann
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #26 - 09/14/10 at 18:33:40
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I am studying the classical Rauzer since i want to use it in my games and i am a little bit afraid of the following endgame although it´s given as not dangerous at all in several books.

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cd 4.Nd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6
6.Bg5 e6 7.Qd2 Be7 8.0-0-0 Nd4 9.Qd4 0-0
10.f4 Qa5 11.e5!? de 12.Qe5 Qe5 13.fe Nd5
14.Be7 Ne7 15.Bd3 b6 16.Be4 Rb8 17.Rhe1 Bb7
18.Rd7 Be4 19.Re4 Nc6 20.Nb5 Rfd8 21.Rd6!
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* 21...Rd6
(21...Rbc8 22.Rc4 Ne5
23.Rc8 Rc8 24.Na7 Rb8 25.Nc6! Nc6 26.Rc6 this position was already analyzed on chesspub but maybe black is even lost in this rook ending? No player including such strong Grandmasters like Miroshnichenko or Baramidze could achieve a draw in this position.22.ed a6 23.Nc7 Rd8 24.Ra4 a5
25.Nb5

White has still presure and black is far away from draw?
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #25 - 08/10/10 at 09:53:36
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Also the line with 17...Nb6 18.Bf1 Rfd8 19.Qg4 Rac8!? seems to hold well for Black. Now 20.Bb4 Rxd1 21.Rxd1 Qe8! with the idea 22.Bd3?! Bb5! seems OK and 20.Kb1 Qc5! (now that 21.Qb4?! is not good) 21.Bd3 Na4!? also seems like an equaliser. Are there any developments here that i don't know?
  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #24 - 08/10/10 at 09:21:15
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I haven't analysed the R-R for 2 years now but in my notes i see
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 d6 6. Bg5 e6 7. Qd2 Be7 8.
O-O-O O-O 9. f4

(9. f3 Nxd4 10. Qxd4 a6 looked OK for Black in Berg,E (2539)-Kotronias,V (2598) Kusadasi 2006. I think De la Villa proposes this variation for White or am i wrong?)
9... Nxd4 10. Qxd4 Qa5 11. Bc4
(The game Cheparinov-Kotronias, Sigeman Chess Tournamnent 2007 went 11. e5 dxe5 12. Qxe5 when Black came up with the interesting novelty 12...b5 )
11... Bd7 12. e5 dxe5 13. fxe5 Bc6 14. Bd2 Nd7 15. Nd5 Qd8 16. Nxe7+ Qxe7 17. Rhe1 Rfc8 (the old move here is 17...Rfd8 and this is Wells' main line in Experts Vs The Sicilian)
18. Qg4!
(Wells proposes 18. Bf1 a5 19. h4 b5 20. Bg5 but Kotronias has played 20...Qf8! and i like Black's position very much)
18... Nf8 19. h4!
(19. Bd3 Ng6 is thought to be equal by theory)
and now the old move was 19...Qc7 but Kotronias played twice
19... Qc5!
In Grischuk,A (2719)-Kotronias,V (2607)
Tripoli 2004/CBM 102, there followed  20. Bd3 Ng6 21. Bc3 Qf2 22. Bxg6 hxg6 23.
Re2 Qf5 24. Qg3
and now the simple 24...Rd8! was strong with no problems for Black.
Gm Berg preffered 20.Bc3 against Kotronias and after
20... Bb5 21.Bd3 he gained a slight edge. Berg proposed 20...h5 21.Qe2 b5 but this also fails to equalise for Black in this sharp position. If an improvement can be found after 20.Bc3, then Black's position is absolutely viable in the R-R (i think!)
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Classical Rauzer
Reply #23 - 08/09/10 at 20:55:39
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