Well, unless you're a sometime exchange lopez player or the like its nothing much like anything else you get to play as white, and of course not at all easy to handle either, so its very natural to dodge it for the odd time you see it.

JAlekhine wrote on 04/04/10 at 20:03:41:


I have a similar rating and have been playing the Berlin for a year and a half.  Well I say 'playing' but I don't get the chance to play the ending very often.  Approximately once every 7 or 8 times I face 1 e4 I'd imagine.

About half of my Black games against king's pawn openings they don't play 3 Bb5.  The other half stronger opponents often avoid the ending with 4 d3.  Of those that don't 4 00 Nxe4, 5 Re1 is much more common than 5 d4 - in my experience at least.

PS: I would also strongly recommend John Cox's book.  Theoretically it must be dated now, but the strength of the book comes in the opening sections when JC discusses common Berlin positions at great length.

Patzerovich wrote on 04/12/10 at 15:24:02:


I don't understand this quote. It's too complicated for 1950 players? Well chess is a complicated game! Who cares what opening someone plays?

trw wrote on 04/25/10 at 23:33:44:


Wow, sounds like you were underrated. Then again, a 1000 rated player who's interested in the Berlin Wall probably isn't playing at a 1000 level. Were you a scholastic player? I remember being surprised that I was more than holding my own against 1500 players in my first adult tournament as a 1100. Ratings for scholastic players can be misleading sometimes, especially if the player is a motivated learner.

I remember doing well with the King's Indian although it was a strategically complex opening I "shouldn't" play. I also played the Dragon, but people rarely played main line theory against either of these and they still served me well as the less critical tries usually gave me good positions in the opening. If a low rated player finds a hero and is inspired to learn an opening, I say go for it. This may sound reckless to a lot of people, but I think the effort put into learning an opening is usually more important to development than the value of the opening itself and inspiration naturally drives the process.

Well, yes, I would consider 3...Nf6 4. 0-0 Bc5 to be in a whole different category than the (queenless) Berlin in terms of whether such lower-rated players should consider aiming to play it.

Well, since 1000 is approximately the rating of a beginner, I struggle with the concept of such of a player "playing the Berlin Wall."  For one thing, I wonder if (s)he would ever get 4. 0-0 Ne4 5. d4 Nd6 6. Bc6 dc 7. de Nf5 8. Qd8 Kd8 on the board.  1500 on the other hand is enough to have some idea of what lines/kinds of position one is aiming for, and to expect to face a few book moves from time to time.

I once had a 1500-ish student who was interested in the Berlin (Kramnik was his hero), but I think that for someone with that kind of rating, playing such a dry/sophisticated/strategic line borders on the ridiculous.

Patzerovich wrote on 04/12/10 at 15:24:02:


I think you should play mainlines with white/black if you want to get better in chess.
Almost 2000 Elorating should be enough to play every opening.

He has a rating of 1950. That should be enough to play the berlin, right?

I've been playing the Berlin wall for 3 years before John Cox's EXCELLENT book was published on it.

You have already found one of my favorite berlin players Leonid Kritz and Zoltan Almasi are regular practitioners outside of the usual top 10 suspects (Kramnik, Aronian etc).

Another great resource is Kramnik's dvd my path to the top where he talks a little about his berlin prep for Kasparov in 2000.

Another introductory just fun vid to the berlin is FM Dennis Monokrouss part 1+2 chessvideo.tv on the Berlin Wall.

In general, when I play the berlin i'm thinking in general ideas for my plans instead of forced moves. As white and black (since I play it from both colors), I have objectives. As black, I want to trade a set of minor pieces (mostly one set of knights), retain if possible the bishop pair (especially the unopposed light square pieces), and try to create light square targets.

As white, I want to get in e6 with whatever possible, especially with e5 f4 g4 h3 setups on the kingside. If white doesn't hammer home his pawn majority... he might find himself quickly worse or lost.

These types of ideas.

TN wrote on 04/04/10 at 20:54:29:


Thank you very much for your answer!
I will think about buying this book, I searched about it in the internet, it really sounds interesting.
Do you have any other advice?
Where are the black Berlin Wall players in this forum? 

Hi guys!

I recently began playing 1.e4 e5 with black (I quit the Sicilian because I wanted to play something new and I didnt like this sharp games anymore). Now I have a problem:
I have no experience in the Ruy Lopez, I chose to play the Berlin Wall with black. How can I start training my understanding in the Berlin Wall? Are there any pages in the internet (english or german) ? What games should I know? What books are useful?

I hope you can help me

Thanks

PS: My Elo is 1950 if my rating is important