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Poll Question: 2010: Greatest French Player Ever!
bars   pie

Bareev    
  1 (1.0%)
Botvinnik    
  20 (20.2%)
Korchnoi    
  31 (31.3%)
Uhlmann    
  27 (27.3%)
Shirov    
  0 (0.0%)
Volkov    
  1 (1.0%)
Nimzovich    
  5 (5.1%)
Rubinstein    
  1 (1.0%)
Ulibin    
  0 (0.0%)
Gurevich    
  1 (1.0%)
Petrosian    
  3 (3.0%)
Morozevich    
  4 (4.0%)
Vaganian    
  2 (2.0%)
Other?    
  3 (3.0%)




Total votes: 99
« Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 04/10/10 at 15:36:02 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C00-C19: greatest French Player of all time? (Read 8234 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #28 - 05/02/10 at 00:21:41
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I agree 100% with you, BP, for the same reasons.  Tho I do think creating the theory for the entire system gives Nimzo props over even Uhlmann!
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #27 - 05/01/10 at 19:44:14
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I went Botvinnik, Korchnoi, Nimzowitsch.

Yes, I recognize Uhlmann did more in general. I went with Nimzowitsch due to the influence he had on me in regards to the French. I'm biased like that.  Grin
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #26 - 05/01/10 at 14:06:57
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My vote went to Korchnoi and Morozevich: Korchnoi because he played the French more than virtually anyone else over 2600, and Morozevich because until recently he was the only 2700+ GM playing the French on a regular basis, and although his score wasn't great, this wasn't the fault of the opening.
  

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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #25 - 05/01/10 at 08:56:59
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I voted for Ullhman and Korchnoi. Psakhis, Gulko, Moskalenko are my "Other" choices Smiley
  
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #24 - 04/13/10 at 01:20:10
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I voted for Uhlmann. Some of his French ideas are completelly outstanding! I don't like many of Korchnoi's games with the French. He chose many times inferior or passive lines with Black. I'd like to see Psakhis on the list. He is a French defence guru and not a week player at all.
  
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #23 - 04/12/10 at 22:13:14
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/12/10 at 16:31:39:
Maybe it was something subliminal about him beating the owner of the site in a French game back in the 1980s? Lips Sealed

Members have been banned for less! Smiley
  
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #22 - 04/12/10 at 16:31:39
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Yeah, Tony.  for some reason, even in the last set of polls, I gave Lputian short shrift, listing him merely as "Smbat".  I don't know why, considering he's been playing Grandmaster chess since I was in high school.

Maybe it was something subliminal about him beating the owner of the site in a French game back in the 1980s? Lips Sealed
  
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #21 - 04/12/10 at 10:30:47
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/11/10 at 19:20:37:
Bogojump wrote on 04/10/10 at 23:52:25:
Of todays players who often play the french one could mention. Ulibin,Gleizerov,Kiriakov,Gurevich,Morozevich,E.Berg,Rustemov,among others.

Radjabov definitely deserves mention in this group.

And Lputian, of course.
  
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #20 - 04/12/10 at 10:15:25
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Truly wise are the Chesspubbers. The current top 3 were the only ones I really considered.

A it surprised that Petrosian and Morozevich don't have more votes; they would be next on my list.
  

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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #19 - 04/12/10 at 07:04:27
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I am not sure whether Spielmann's results can be called inconsistent. He was great in sharp openings, and the French usually is exactly the opposite (no insult intended, I have played it myself).

Another example from Spielmann's practice. Spielmann with White playing against the Sicilian Defence:
In 39 games using 2.Nf3 he scores only 53%.
His 7 games with 2.b4, however, are +7, =0, -0.
  
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MNb
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #18 - 04/12/10 at 02:43:49
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Problem with Spielmann is that the only two strong opponents he had good scores against - better than any other player of his time- were Alekhine and Capablanca. No matter which other great player, Spielmann scored about 45%. In other words, he was very inconsistent, not unlike Ljubojevic. This is also highlighted by the fact that he wiped the floor with Tarrasch before WW-1 and got wiped after it.
So to appreciate Spielmann fully one has to neglect his mediocre and weak performances and concentrate on the strong ones.
To decide if Spielmann belongs on the list (and I have my doubts, if I am honest, which I am usually not) you should take a glance at

Tarrasch-Spielmann, Nuremberg 1906 (quite an effort for a 25-years old youngster; remember that Tarrasch was a WCh-candidate at that time);
Réti-Spielmann and Bogoljubow-Spielmann, Stockholm 1919, both showing cool defensive play (something usually not associated with Spielmann);
Réti-Spielmann, Vienna 1921 (positionally outplaying one of the godfathers of hypermodern chess);

If you contradict that these games are outweighed by failures like

Ilyin Zhenevsky-Spielmann, Moscow 1925 and
Matison-Spielmann, Carlsbad 1929 (missing a win costed him first place; now only rival Nimzowitsch is remembered ...)

I only can agree.

Nah, probably Maroczy has more rights. Just could not resist answering your remark on Short.
  

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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #17 - 04/11/10 at 22:03:43
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Cool

In defense of Spielmann, at least he did play a few French games.  But his 67 games (in my db), losing more games than he won, doesn't thrill me.  Was there something special in his handling of the French that deserves mention?
  
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MNb
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #16 - 04/11/10 at 21:37:33
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/11/10 at 19:06:56:
Chess players are contrarian by nature.  In the original poll, Short showed up in only two top ten lists, and nobody chose him in the top 5.


Add a certain Jewish-Austrian player who died in 1941 and he will have at least (probably also at most) one vote.
  

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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #15 - 04/11/10 at 19:20:37
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Bogojump wrote on 04/10/10 at 23:52:25:
Of todays players who often play the french one could mention. Ulibin,Gleizerov,Kiriakov,Gurevich,Morozevich,E.Berg,Rustemov,among others.

Radjabov definitely deserves mention in this group.
  
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Re: Who was the greatest French Player of all time?
Reply #14 - 04/11/10 at 19:06:56
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Chess players are contrarian by nature.  In the original poll, Short showed up in only two top ten lists, and nobody chose him in the top 5.  I can add one more name, and Short probably has a slightly stronger case than Dreev or anyone else.

I'll wait to see if others have any preference.

Some of the other "other" candidates may be:

Akopian
Gleizerov
Alekhine (if only for his win against Capa)
Anand
Khalifman
Stahlberg
Yusupov
Radjabov
Psakhis
Timman
Maroczy
Blackburne
and

Chigorin

  
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