ChessPub Forum - Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited

Stefan Buecker

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Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited
Reply #31 - 04/25/10 at 05:01:31

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(1.d4 Nc6 2.d5 Ne5 3.f4 Ng6 4.e4) 4...c6 5.Nf3(!) has been mentioned above.

I suggest 5...Qc7 6.Nc3 e6 (6...Nxf4?? 7.d6 +-), for example 7.f5 Ne5 8.Bf4 Bd6 9.fxe6 dxe6 10.Nxe5 Bxe5 11.d6 Qa5 12.Qf3 Qc5! (12...Nf6 13.b4!) 13.0-0-0 Nf6

The pawn d6 looks strong, but there are few weaknesses in Black's camp: 14.Bxe5 (14. Rd3 Bxf4+ 15.Qxf4 e5 or 14...0-0; 14.Kb1 Bxc3 or 14...0-0 or 14...Bxf4 15.Qxf4 e5 16.Qg3 0-0 17.Be2 Rd8 18.Rhf1 Kf8) 14...Qxe5 15.g3 Bd7 with good prospects to develop and equalize. If 16.Qf4?!, Black has the response 16...Qxf4+ 17.gxf4 e5!.

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Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1953 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #30 - 04/24/10 at 07:08:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	Important! -- in my Reply #26 above, forget the footnote! Apologies -- I was just getting mixed up. In another thread, Inn2 suggests that [5 ...fe] 6 Bd3 d5 allows 7 Qe2(!). Maybe 6 ...d5 is more promising after 6 Nf3, then, but so far I don't like it much, e.g. 7 Nc3 Bb4 8 g3 Nf6 (I wanted to make 8 ...c5 work, but 9 Bd2!?) 9 Bd2 (9 ...0-0 10 e5). At the moment, after 6 Nf3 I'm more interested in 6 ...Bb4!?, which has been tried successfully at least once. Perhaps it's playable after 6 Bd3 too. I was led to exploring this through being unsure how Black should play after 6 Nf3 Bc5 [b]7 Nc3!?[/b], which looks rather annoying. Any thoughts/info on (any of) this? Is this all more or less virgin territory?


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Gambit God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 1396 Location: Newark Joined: 07/26/05 Gender:	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #29 - 04/24/10 at 04:35:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	I might have one game, but need to locate it.


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SWJediknight God Member Offline Alert... opponent out of book! Posts: 916 Joined: 03/14/08	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #28 - 04/23/10 at 22:21:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	I note that none of those games featured the critical 2.d5. Tony Miles's games were the same- according to Chess Monthly he only faced it once in a simul. Quote: 1 d4 Nc6 2 e4 d5 3 ed5 Qxd5 4 Nf3 Bg4 I recognise that as a combative line of the Scandinavian- I've had it in numerous games via a 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 move-order! Haven't yet found anything convincing for Black (yet) after 4...c6 5.Nf3! either - but I agree that 4...e6 5.dxe6 fxe6 6.h4 b6 looks quite promising for Black, and an idea worth bearing in mind in related lines.


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Gambit God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 1396 Location: Newark Joined: 07/26/05 Gender:	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #27 - 04/23/10 at 19:07:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	I found the old game-scores. They are from the early 1990s. Ernest Haile (1800) - Zilbermints (1900) Marshall Chess Club Wednesday Under 2000 28 October 1992 1 d4 Nc6 2 e3 e5 3 Bb5 ed4 4 Bxc6 dxc6 5 Qd4 Qxd4 6 ed4 Bf5 7 c3 c5 8 Nf3 Bd3 9 Ne5 Ba6 10 Be3 Bd6 11 Nd2 Nf6 12 Nec4 cd4 13 Nxe6 cxd6 14 Bxd4 Ke7 15 000 Rhe8 16 Rde1+ Kd7 17 Bxf6 gf6 18 Nf3 Bc4 19 b3 Bd4 20 Nh4 Re6 21 Kd2 Rae8 22 Re3 Re4 23 Rhe1 R4e5 24 f4 R5e6 25 g3 Be4 26 c4 f5 27 a4 a5 28 Kc3 d5! 29 cd Rc8+ 30 Kd4?? Rd6! 31 Nxf5 Bxf5 32 Re7+ Kc7 33 Ree7 Rd7! 34 Ke5 Rxe8 35 Rxe8 Bc2 36 Rh8 Bb3 37 d6+ Rxd6 38 Rxh7 Rd7 39 Kf6 Bxa4 40 Rh5 b6 41 Re5 Bb3 42 h4 a4 43 Re3 Rd6+ 44 Kf5 Bc2+ 45 Kg3 Rd3 46 Re7 Rd7 48 Re7 Kd6 49 Rxf7 a3 50 Ra7 b5 51 h5 Ba4! 52 Ra8 Kc7 53 h6 a2 54 h7 a1/Q 55 h8/Q Qd1+ 56 Kf5 Rd5+ 57 Ke6 Rd6+ 58 Kf5 Qd3+ 59 Kg5 Qxg3+ 60 Resigns Other early 1990s games transposed to the Nimzovich Defence, 1 e4 Nc6 2 d4 d5 lines. Such was the case in IM Walter Shipman - Zilbermints, Marshall Chess Club Weekend Swiss, 29 August 1992: 1 d4 Nc6 2 e4 (After 6 minutes of thinking!) d5 3 Nc3 de4 4 d5 Nb8 5 Nxe4 Nf6 = although 1-0/69 moves. Peter Hammer (2037) - Zilbermints, Round 4 in the same tournament, went: 1 d4 Nc6 2 e4 d5 3 ed5 Qxd5 4 Nf3 Bg4 5 c3 000 6 Be2 e5! = 0.5 - 0.5/71 moves. The next game can transpose after 1 d4 Nc6 2 Nf3 d6 3 c4 Bg4: Guss (1700) - Zilbermints (1900) Marshall CC U2000 30 September 1992 1 Nf3 Nc6 2 d4 d6 3 c4 Bg4 4 Nbd2 e5 5 d5 Bxf3 6 Nxf3 Nce7 7 e4 Qd7 8 Bd3 Ng6 9 h3 Be7 10 00 Bf6 11 Nh2 h5 12 Qb3 000 13 Be3 Kb8 14 Qa3 b6 15 b4 Nf4 16 Bxf4 ef4 17 Rab1 g5 18 f3 Bd4+ 19 Kh1 Nh6 20 Be2? g4 21 fg4 hg4 22 Nxg4 Nxg4 23 Bxg4 Qxg4 24 c5 Rcg8 25 Qf3 Qxf3 26 Rxf3 Be5 27 a4 Rg3 28 Resigns Other games were 1 e4 Nc6, the Nimzovich Defence. In those days I was influenced by Britain's GM Tony Miles, who played 1...Nc6 against any opening. His games were published in Inside Chess magazine, to which I subscribed at the time. This explains why I had some 1...Nc6 games back then.


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Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1953 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #26 - 04/23/10 at 12:53:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	@ Gambit Great! -- hope you can post the games. (Bet you didn't favour 5 ...dxe6! ) @linksspringer Yes, 5 ...d6 is possible but Black's position looks pretty grotty -- I can't make sense of the N on g6. I have the feeling that in the 4 ...e6/e5 5 de fe line, serious analytical scrutiny, incl. the use of strong engines, could throw up quite a few new ideas. White has numerous tries here, from the dubious(?) 6 e5 and 6 Qf3 through 6 g3, 6 Nc3, 6 Be3 and 6 Bd3 to the critical 6 Nf3 and 6 h4!?, and it seems there's little established theory on any of them! ChessPub forum, of course, is leading the way! Footnote! In my original, no longer modifiable, post, I meant to write that it's after 6 Bd3, not 6 Nf3, that 6 ...d5 might or might not be strong ...


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linksspringer Senior Member Offline Posts: 376 Joined: 09/25/07	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #25 - 04/23/10 at 10:37:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	Michael Ayton wrote on 04/22/10 at 17:42:08: It'd be great to make 4 ...c6 work! So far though I haven't found anything against 5 Nf3 ... Maybe you can help! Interesting news from the Kania website. Maybe one of us should drop them a line ... Yes, you are right, 5.Nf3 looks tough. Black could transpose into the Mestrovic variation with 5...d6, although that doesn't look attractive. I'll try and find my old notes on 4...e6.


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Gambit God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 1396 Location: Newark Joined: 07/26/05 Gender:	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #24 - 04/23/10 at 02:58:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	This brings back memories! In the early 1990s I used to play a few games with 1 d4 Nc6. If I can find the old game scores, I will post them here.


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Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1953 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #23 - 04/22/10 at 17:42:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	It'd be great to make 4 ...c6 work! So far though I haven't found anything against 5 Nf3 ... Maybe you can help! Interesting news from the Kania website. Maybe one of us should drop them a line ...


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linksspringer Senior Member Offline Posts: 376 Joined: 09/25/07	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #22 - 04/22/10 at 12:45:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	(1.d4 Nc6 2.d5 Ne5 3.f4 Ng6 4.e4) 4...c6 looks like a very interesting innovation! Just FYI regarding the literature: Stefan mentioned 1...Sc6! aus allen Lagen (1995), but that may be difficult to get hold of. However, I noticed that Berdichevsky copies a lot of analysis from Keilhack and Schlenker. And on the Kania website there is this announcement: Ilja Schneider & Friends, 1...Sc6! aus allen Lagen - Neubearbeitung! Der junge IM, Elo 2508, schreibt das klassische Keilhack-Schlenker-Konzept fort! No expected publication date given however.


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Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1953 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #21 - 04/21/10 at 11:03:55	Post Tools	Print Post
	Fingers crossed! ... (10 a3!? is interesting, but maybe just 10 ...Qe7 and 11 ...0-0-0 ...)


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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #20 - 04/21/10 at 10:48:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	Yes, 6.h4 b6! looks best, to find other ways to bring your pieces into play, and maybe castle long. For example 7.h5 N6e7 8.Nc3 Bb7 9.Nf3 Nc6 10.Be3 Bb4 11.Qd3 Qe7 12.0-0-0 Nf6 (or 12...Bxc3 13.Qxc3 Nf6), and Black has nothing to fear.


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Michael Ayton God Member Offline ‘You’re never alone with a doppelgänger.’ Posts: 1953 Location: durham Joined: 04/19/03 Gender:	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #19 - 04/21/10 at 09:57:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks for this Stefan -- alas it's not (yet!) looking good for the Bogo! In the ...e6 line with 5 ...fe 6 h4! I haven't yet found solace either. After 5 ...Bb4 the 9 h6 line looks good for White, and 6 ...d5 7 h5 N6e7 8 Nf3 Nc6!? 9 Nc3! Bb4 10 Bd2 Nf6 11 e5 also looks thankless. Maybe 8 ...Nh6 here should be looked at (but then just 9 Nc3 ...)? I was also looking at [b]6 ...Nh6[/b] 7 h5 Ne7, with the idea that 8 Nc3 Nc6 9 Nf3 Bc5 might be awkward for White -- so an engine suggests 9 g4!?-! I guess though that there are also other lines like 8 Be3!? Nc6 9 Nc3 Bb4 10 Qd2 then 0-0-0 (+/=?). I want to punish White for all his pawn moves by dynamic piece play, but the space plus constant threat of h5-h6 look serious, grrr ... My latest thought is [b]6 ...b6!?[/b] (more flexible than 6 ...Nh6 7 h5 Ne7 8 Nc3 b6?) ...


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Stefan Buecker God Member Offline Posts: 1386 Location: Germany Joined: 02/11/09 Gender:	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #18 - 04/21/10 at 09:22:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	[quote author=696A6066070 link=1271505369/16#16 date=1271786942]After 4 ...c6!? [b]5 Nf3[/b] cd I was thinking about [u]6 ed[/u] -- e.g. something like 6 ...e6 7 Nc3 Nf6 8 de fe 9 Bd3 and positional pressure coming up? All very provisional as ever, so do put me right![/quote] You are right: [b]5.Nf3! [/b](avoids Black's plan to save the Ng6 by indirect measures) [b]5...cxd5 6.exd5![/b] is promising and critical. My first idea was 7...Bb4 (instead of 7...Nf6, when 8.d6 comes into consideration), so that N8e7 (protecting Ng6) remains an option against dxe6 followed by Bd3 or similar set-ups. But 8.dxe6! (8.Qd4?! unclear) is favourable for White, e.g. 8...Bxc3+ 9.bxc3 fxe6 10.Bd3 N8e7 11.0-0 0-0 12.g3 +/-. Or 8...fxe6 (8...Qe7 9.Qd4) 9.Qd4 Qe7 10.h4 etc.


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SWJediknight God Member Offline Alert... opponent out of book! Posts: 916 Joined: 03/14/08	Re: Bogolyubov Defence (1 d4 Nc6!?) revisited Reply #17 - 04/20/10 at 19:47:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	Stefan Buecker wrote on 04/20/10 at 17:20:27: (1.d4 Nc6 2.d5 Ne5 3.f4 Ng6 4.e4 e6 5.dxe6 fxe6 6.h4) 6...Bb4+ 7.c3 Bc5 8.h5 N6e7. Instead of 9.b4 I'd prefer 9.h6 g6 10.Nf3 followed by Ng5. Quote: I think 4...c6 doesn't work after 5.Nc3, e.g. 5...Nf6 6.dxc6 bxc6 7.e5 leaves the knight with no good square, and 5...Qc7 6.Nf3 Nf6 (or 6...d6 7.f5 Ne5 8.Nxe5 dxe5 must be better for White) 7.Qd4 threatens 8.e5. However, 5...Qb6! 6.Nf3 Nf6 7.a4 cxd5 8.Nxd5 Nxd5 9.Qxd5 e6 10.Qd4 (10.Qb5 Bc5; 10.Qd3 Qc7!) 10...Qxd4 11.Nxd4 Bc5 12.Nb3 Bb6, intending e5. White hasn't much. Fritz initially rejects 5...Qb6 on account 6.Nf3 Nf6 7.f5 Ng4 (the only way to avoid losing a knight) 8.Qd4 N6e5 9.Qxb6 axb6 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Be3. That said, I'm not sure if White has much after 11...b5, so maybe 4...c6 5.Nc3 is indeed viable for Black. An alternative may be 7.h4 with similar lines to the above (7...cxd5 8.Nxd5 Nxd5 9.Qxd5 e6 10.Qd4 Qxd4 11.Nxd4 Bc5 12.Nb3 Bb6) and here White continues 13.h5 Ne7 and then maybe 14.h6 g6 (yet again, a pretty unusual position), though again it looks viable for Black. 10.Qb5 Bc5 11.Qxb6 is similar.


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