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Poll Question: What are some legit reasons to ban a member?
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Provocative Behavior    
  11 (8.9%)
Repeated foul language    
  16 (13.0%)
Hate speech    
  22 (17.9%)
No chess-related posts    
  8 (6.5%)
Spam    
  25 (20.3%)
Advertising non-chess items    
  20 (16.3%)
Personal attacks    
  19 (15.4%)
Other    
  2 (1.6%)




Total votes: 123
« Last Modified by: Smyslov_Fan on: 04/23/10 at 21:18:26 »
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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Reasons to ban a player (Read 10863 times)
GMTonyKosten
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #16 - 04/30/10 at 14:48:46
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/29/10 at 13:06:55:
I can't do it right now, but I can split this topic and have a separate one on organizing the forum.

That's a good idea, you could make the new post 'sticky', too, so it stays on top.  Smiley
  
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BirdBrain
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #15 - 04/26/10 at 15:07:46
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I did vote for provocative behaviour.  However, I inferred that to mean someone who intentionally desires an argument, not a discussion, which involves biased opinions and derogatory discussion. 

If someone believes I posted the worst reply to a chess move, or whatever, and chooses to critique my post in a non-complimentary fashion, instead leaning more on bashing, then that is provocative.  If a person cannot post because they feel that their ideas are going to be attacked in a non-friendly manner (i.e.  your idea sucks), these are provocative...they don't help at all.

I really enjoy chesspub, and for quite a while I haven't posted, not because I haven't wanted to, but because I feel at the moment I didn't have something good to say.  But daily I got on here during weekdays to read posts, to see what people were up to, etc.  I like the quality of this site, I feel that if I ask a question, I can get a good answer. 

Now, when I posted about 1. f4, I felt like more people were bashing at my posts, instead of contributing to theory and opinions.  However, when I posted about 1. e4, the ideas seemed more fluid - I got less "provocative" posts, and more info, which I appreciated.  I do enjoy reading new info on openings daily, and I don't want to feel that if my ideas are inferior to another, therefore I am not posting, that one day my account is banned for lack of posts. 

I don't agree with banning posters for creating threads that have already been discussed.  I appreciate the more friendly approach of mentioning old threads, and it would be nice to have a way to join threads.  I notice often that threads are moved, and sometimes when I search for a thread or an idea, I cannot find what I am looking for.  So I naturally assume that maybe it has not been covered on this site. 

My basic opinion...if you are going to count the posts made, at least see if they have logged on recently...maybe if they haven't logged in for 3, or 6 months, then maybe disable the account. 

If someone is posting rash comments that are obviously aimed at degrading other chess players, that should be handled - this site should be a friendly site where people can get on, regardless of level.  If it were only pitched to people 1800+, then I definitely wouldn't be here...but it is beneficial to me as a chess player to see ideas, and to have the option to discuss opinions and questions that I might have. 

If chesspub had something akin to an Openings Explorer, where certain threads were accessible from an Openings Explorer, then it might be easier to find threads.  I could begin a line in the From's Gambit and be given suggestions as to which threads are currently discussing these lines.  Plus, this might bring new life to old threads that have collected dust for the past 5 or 6 years, etc.

There could be more I would like to discuss at this point, but this is a good starting grounds for how I feel about it.  Let's make chesspub a friendly site where ideas are free to flow, without tearing each other apart.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #14 - 04/26/10 at 14:44:56
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Markovich wrote on 04/26/10 at 14:17:55:
Fair enough, but you need to make allowance for the difficulty of finding threads on given subjects, which in my opinion is quite significant here.  I've spent a long time searching for threads that I knew existed, without much luck.  How much more difficult the search for a thread whose existence is uncertain?

Actually I don't think this particular forum structure is ideal for its purposes -- I understand it's easy and readily available.  So far as I know, nobody has written software suitable to a detailed classification of forum posts.  Or if they have, maybe someone reading this will be able to point it out.



Perhaps we moderators could take a more active role in organizing old threads and merging them?  It could be a massive undertaking, and I don't like adding to my own work load. 

But it would be nice to reduce the clutter.  For instance, in the general chess section,  I am tired of reading variations on "what can you recommend to help me improve with minimum effort" threads.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #13 - 04/26/10 at 14:32:49
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Markovich wrote on 04/26/10 at 14:17:55:
...I don't think there should be an objective standard for banning anyone.  Objective standards never mean very much anyway.


I could be misreading you, but I think we actually agree! I don't like codifying the rules unless this community becomes too large to work by collegial standards.  Right now, there really is only a handful of regular contributors to the site and most of us make appropriate posts most of the time.

Btw, so far about 30 people have responded to the poll. I'm glad to see that a consensus seems to be forming about banning ads, spam, personal attacks and  hate speech.  I still would like the 9 people who would ban provocative posts to explain what they mean beyond simply allowing the moderators to determine what is provocative.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #12 - 04/26/10 at 14:17:55
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 04/24/10 at 10:38:08:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 04/23/10 at 22:17:49:
But forum rules could achieve more: give new members the advice to read the threads for a while, before they start a new thread (on the same topic already covered umpteenth times).

Where would these Forum rules be put, and how can you guarantee that someone would actually read them?
Myself, I like the idea of banning members who start a new thread about a subject that has been covered many times before! Smiley


Fair enough, but you need to make allowance for the difficulty of finding threads on given subjects, which in my opinion is quite significant here.  I've spent a long time searching for threads that I knew existed, without much luck.  How much more difficult the search for a thread whose existence is uncertain?

Actually I don't think this particular forum structure is ideal for its purposes -- I understand it's easy and readily available.  So far as I know, nobody has written software suitable to a detailed classification of forum posts.  Or if they have, maybe someone reading this will be able to point it out.

Opening theory is somewhat special in that it's subject to exhaustive classification.  That's not true of most fields of internet forum interest.

Now to address the topic, quite a few of the proposed reasons for banning a member have never been a problem here.  But I think that I depart from the consensus in that I don't think there should be an objective standard for banning anyone.  Objective standards never mean very much anyway.
  

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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #11 - 04/24/10 at 12:49:30
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Provocative behavior is a sword with two blades. It can be disastrous for a thread and it can be the necessary salt in a discussion. (If I understand correctly the meaning.)

So I would hand the judgement of this to the moderators.
  

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Dum spiro spero. Smiley
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TalJechin
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #10 - 04/24/10 at 11:11:23
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GMTonyKosten wrote on 04/24/10 at 10:38:08:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 04/23/10 at 22:17:49:
But forum rules could achieve more: give new members the advice to read the threads for a while, before they start a new thread (on the same topic already covered umpteenth times).

Where would these Forum rules be put, and how can you guarantee that someone would actually read them?
Myself, I like the idea of banning members who start a new thread about a subject that has been covered many times before! Smiley


How about a pop-up with the rules for new members for the first 5-10 times they start a new thread?
  
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GMTonyKosten
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #9 - 04/24/10 at 10:38:08
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 04/23/10 at 22:17:49:
But forum rules could achieve more: give new members the advice to read the threads for a while, before they start a new thread (on the same topic already covered umpteenth times).

Where would these Forum rules be put, and how can you guarantee that someone would actually read them?
Myself, I like the idea of banning members who start a new thread about a subject that has been covered many times before! Smiley
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #8 - 04/23/10 at 23:05:43
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The Chess Pub is growing, and so its informal system may need to be reviewed.  The issue, as I see it, really came up because one moderator thinks we are too lenient. 

Every problem so far has been dealt with appropriately (from my point of view). I am uncomfortable with setting up a code of behavior in part because it would cause people to get banned or suspended because they broke the code whereas currently their behavior can be modified with just a warning. The people here know what's acceptable!

The atmosphere at the Chess Pub is collegial.  It is growing, so it may be appropriate to review our policies.  But I would like to hold on to the traditions we've established and keep the system in place. 

But if we were to codify the rules, it would mean a committee.  Who wants to do that? (A serious question, not sarcastic.)
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #7 - 04/23/10 at 22:17:49
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Instead of defining who should be banned, it would be better to have clear Forum rules, as a guide for members and moderators, aiming at raising the quality of the forum - imo a better purpose than only to get rid of the most annoying members.

The banning of those who spread spam is a trivial matter, similarly we don't have to discuss that using "ad hominem" arguments is bad behaviour. Political extremism must be taboo. Whether persons with any political agenda should be allowed to post, if they are not interested in posting on chess, may be more controversial (I'd say: no).

But forum rules could achieve more: give new members the advice to read the threads for a while, before they start a new thread (on the same topic already covered umpteenth times). Tell them to be careful when writing the title of a thread (at least they should get the names of openings right, and not use CAPS). Forum rules could try to set a minimum standard for postings: e.g. that it is polite to repeat the first moves of a discussed sequence, at least now and then, and to include a few diagrams for the key positions (but not too many). When it is helpful to attach a pgn file. And so on...
  
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #6 - 04/23/10 at 21:56:13
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On other forums, the general nature of banning is something like this:

Advertising non-chess items: Automatic permanent ban.

Spam: If by a new member, automatic permanent ban. Otherwise a temporary ban from one week to six months depending on frequency and severity.

Hate Speech: One warning is given to the offending party, then if continued a temporary ban of 1-2 weeks follows. The ban lengthens if this behaviour is repeated after the member is unbanned.

Repeated foul language: Usually a few warnings are given before a ban is implemented. The first ban is often only a day long, but other bans that follow it increase in length. This probably goes under 'hate speech', so this comment refers to foul language that is not part of hate speech.

Personal attacks: One warning in the first instance of a personal attack. If the warning is not adhered to, a long ban usually follows.

Provocative Behaviour: This is too general a term to be of much relevance. If by provocative behaviour you were thinking 'trolling', then usually other forums will offer two warnings before imposing a short ban. If repeated, longer bans are implemented.

No chess-related posts: I know members on other chess forums who only post in the non-chess sections, and there isn't a problem with their behaviour on the server. I assume you meant 'no chess-related posts out of a person's posts in chess threads', although this would be classified under 'spam'.

I believe the ChessPub Forum's 'policy' on bans is less strict, probably because the ChessPub Forum is one of a small number of forums with little or no spam, foul language, hate speech and personal attacks.

  

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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #5 - 04/23/10 at 21:33:40
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Anything stimulating discussion is provocative. So stop with the provocative threads! Tongue (sarcasm - if it is in the Stars Wars sense I cannot say)
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #4 - 04/23/10 at 20:56:55
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Neither will I, MNb.

But at least two people (so far) think it's good enough reason. I wonder what they mean?
  
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MNb
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #3 - 04/23/10 at 20:34:58
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/23/10 at 19:19:08:
And please, do not focus on any one individual!


Sorry, I am going to discuss myself. If provocative behaviour is a good reason to ban someone I won't make it very long on this site, I'm afraid.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Reasons to ban a player
Reply #2 - 04/23/10 at 19:35:06
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I disagree with banning someone if they only post in the chat section.

Such a person may read every chess post and just not have anything to add. It's a bit strange, but possible.  Also, such a person may be interested in what thinking people are interested in more than the general public.  Of course, that person is probably misguided if she thinks that chess players think more than others, but that's another issue.

If a person posts only in the chat, and follows the site rules, I have no problem at all.  I know at least one person here is upset that people discuss issues that he thinks are closed, but that's more of an attack on the subject than on whether such a person makes chess-related comments.

For me, "provocative behavior" is too nebulous a term to be useful.  I've started many threads with the express purpose of eliciting a response.  In fact, I think just about every thread I've started and most that I've read have been provocative. 

We have an informal system here whereby the moderators let Tony know if there's a problem with someone.  I have personally discussed several members with him, and I have no problem with the current system.

Of course, I'm on the inside, and have a slightly different perspective than others.  Hence the poll.

(I edited this because for some reason, I've spelled provocative three different ways today, and only one was correct!  Embarrassed )
« Last Edit: 04/23/10 at 21:21:41 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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