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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C41: Bologan on Philidor (Read 63480 times)
Ametanoitos
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #42 - 01/29/11 at 10:06:52
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8...h6 9.Nh4! is crushing for White no doubt. Can anyone check the new Chess Stars Philidor book and tell us how this deals with Top's suggestions?
  
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Matemax
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #41 - 01/29/11 at 08:57:38
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TopNotch wrote on 01/28/11 at 04:52:19:
[quote author=5C7065747C7069110 link=1272645059/37#37 date=1296145932]
Dreev, A - Minasian, A 2008 (Very important game, which makes Bologan's alternative suggestion of 8...h6 look quite dubious. I can't explain why there are so few eamples of Dreev's treatment in the databases, as it looks highly unpleasant for Black)


First of all - Thank you for your recommendations - they look pretty good!

Concering the game Dreev-Minasian I think that Black did really terribly after 9.Nh4:

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Minasian played: 9...Ne4?! 10.Ne4 Bh4 11.Nd6 ed4? - here we can stop and say that White is close to winning after 11.Qh5!

Bologan (on his DVD) recommends to play something like ...d5, ...Nb6 or ...Bc5 against the Nh4 ideas - This looks much better and the quesiton arises what the knight on h4 is doing?
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #40 - 01/29/11 at 01:34:20
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Stigma wrote on 01/28/11 at 10:15:32:
Thanks for this contribution TopNotch!

Both Bauer (2006) and Kosten (1992) in their Philidor books preferred lines with ...exd4 against White's Qe2 lines.

Let's say White delays Qe2 as long as possible: 7.a4 c6 8.Ba2 a5 9.Qe2, and now Bauer wants to play 9...exd4 10.Nxd4 Nc5, following Yu Shaoteng - Bauer, Paris 2006. I think I will take a look at his analysis and search for improvements for White, to go with the rest of the "program" you presented.


I don't have access to the Bauer book, but the treatment shown in Shaposhnikov, E - Zablotsky, S 2008 and listed in my previous post, looks like a nagging edge for White. In that game 11.f3 effectively anticipates Qb6 and leaves Black with a playable but passive position.

Having said all that, Bauer's plan may still represent Black's most resilient try against the setup I outlined. Nevertheless  I would be quite satisfied with White's winning chances here. 

Topster Smiley
  

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Stigma
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #39 - 01/28/11 at 10:15:32
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Thanks for this contribution TopNotch!

Both Bauer (2006) and Kosten (1992) in their Philidor books preferred lines with ...exd4 against White's Qe2 lines.

Let's say White delays Qe2 as long as possible: 7.a4 c6 8.Ba2 a5 9.Qe2, and now Bauer wants to play 9...exd4 10.Nxd4 Nc5, following Yu Shaoteng - Bauer, Paris 2006. I think I will take a look at his analysis and search for improvements for White, to go with the rest of the "program" you presented.
  

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TopNotch
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #38 - 01/28/11 at 04:52:19
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Matemax wrote on 01/27/11 at 16:32:12:
TopNotch wrote on 05/23/10 at 02:41:09:
Black faces unpleasant problems in the a4, Bc4, Ba2 intending Qe2 followed by Rd1 lines.

Could you recommend games to look at from White's perspective in this line?


Sure thing.

Amonatov, F - Ponkratov, P 2009; Amonatov,F - Voinov, A 2008; Shaposhnikov, E - Zablotsky, S 2008; Amonatov,F - Zablotsky, S 2007 [These games represent a more modern and accurate interpretation for black in the 'Lion', whereby he shows a good understanding of the nuances of the position, as exemplified by his retention of the light squared Bishop on the the important c8 - h3 diagonal for as long as required. This stratagem is well founded, the ramifications of which are explored a bit further in the next paragraph.  Nevertheless as the above cited games hopefully have shown, white still retains much the better chances].   

Ivanov, A - Manik, M 1993(Highly instructive and important game); Manik, M - Klemanic 1994 (Manik was sufficiently impresed that he changes sides at the first opportunity....); Manik, M - Valach, B 1995.....and never....; Manik, M - Mihalik, M 1995...looks back; Vajda, L - Markus, R 2002; Movsesian, S - Pribyl, J 1997 [These key games, in particular Ivanov - Manik, clearly illustrate  why Black players should keep the light sqaured bishop on the c8 - h3 diagonal once White retains the typical and often deadly manoeuvre of Nh4 to f5 or g6. Study these gems carefully and commit the tactical motifs to memory, they occur time and again in these Hanham structures and are vital to White's success.  [ Motwani, P - Rowson, J 1995 further reinforces the themes highlighted in this paragraph and will repay study].

Dreev, A - Minasian, A 2008 [Very important game, which makes Bologan's alternative suggestion of 8...h6 look quite dubious. I can't explain why there are so few eamples of Dreev's treatment in the databases, as it looks highly unpleasant for Black].

I hope this post has been informative.

Regards,

Toppy  Smiley
« Last Edit: 01/29/11 at 01:45:08 by TopNotch »  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #37 - 01/27/11 at 16:32:12
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TopNotch wrote on 05/23/10 at 02:41:09:
Black faces unpleasant problems in the a4, Bc4, Ba2 intending Qe2 followed by Rd1 lines.

Could you recommend games to look at from White's perspective in this line?
  
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #36 - 01/27/11 at 12:01:01
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I bought this DVD last week and would highly recommend it. Bologan’s lectures are of the highest quality. There’s no umming and erring or ‘’go look this up/check what I’m guessing against an engine’’ like Shirov does.

I’m only rated around 2100, but after watching the dvd, putting a little work in to bulk out the variations and hone my endgame technique I think I’d be ready to try this in tournament play within a week or two.

From trying it on the playchess servers it would seem like most people have one ‘pet line’ against the Philidor rather than follow mainline theory. Probably as they don’t feel as though they face it enough to put any real work in. Luckily as Bologan has shown, these sidelines offer very little for white against a prepared Philiphile . Cool
  
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #35 - 05/23/10 at 12:28:55
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Straggler wrote on 05/23/10 at 11:51:40:
I assumed the question was about 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 f5, which Tony K referred to as Mestel's variation. But he also mentioned 3.Bc4 f5!? and said he liked that too. Of course ...f5 is impossible with Bologan's preferred move order anyway.


True, although in the game above, Belin played d4 in two moves, losing a tempo  Shocked
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #34 - 05/23/10 at 11:51:40
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I assumed the question was about 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 f5, which Tony K referred to as Mestel's variation. But he also mentioned 3.Bc4 f5!? and said he liked that too. Of course ...f5 is impossible with Bologan's preferred move order anyway.
  
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JEH
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #33 - 05/23/10 at 10:09:59
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Straggler wrote on 05/22/10 at 18:34:52:
Bibs wrote on 05/19/10 at 07:26:16:
You having a laugh?
...
2. Bologan is a sensible, high-ranking GM, not a club chancer.

Tony Kosten devoted a chapter of "Winning with the Philidor" to 3...f5, and thought it "completely viable".

Anyway, we club chancers make up a large proportion of the market.


I can remember well watching IM Robert Belin crush this in style in Guernsey.

[Event "Guernsey op 31st "]
[Site "Cobo Bay"]
[Date "2005.10.22"]
[Round "7"]
[White "Bellin, Robert"]
[Black "Goater, Kevin"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C41"]
[WhiteElo "2374"]
[BlackElo "2178"]
[PlyCount "47"]
[EventDate "2005.10.16"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "7"]
[EventCountry "GCI"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2005.11.24"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Bc4 f5 4. d3 f4 5. d4 Nc6 6. Bb5 Bd7 7. Nc3 Nge7 8. d5
Nb8 9. Bxd7+ Qxd7 10. g3 fxg3 11. hxg3 h6 12. Ng5 Rg8 13. Ne6 Na6 14. Qh5+ g6
15. Qe2 h5 16. g4 hxg4 17. Rh7 Nc5 18. Bg5 Nxe6 19. dxe6 Qxe6 20. Nd5 Nxd5 21.
Qb5+ c6 22. Qxb7 Rc8 23. exd5 Qf5 24. Re7+ 1-0
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #32 - 05/23/10 at 03:03:46
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Straggler wrote on 05/22/10 at 18:34:52:
Bibs wrote on 05/19/10 at 07:26:16:
You having a laugh?
...
2. Bologan is a sensible, high-ranking GM, not a club chancer.

Tony Kosten devoted a chapter of "Winning with the Philidor" to 3...f5, and thought it "completely viable".

Anyway, we club chancers make up a large proportion of the market.

Hey! I resemble that remark!!!

*goes off hunting for web sites selling Kosten's book*

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TopNotch
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #31 - 05/23/10 at 02:41:09
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I would caution against building an entire repertoire around this Philidor hanham setup, its solid but passive.

Useful as a second string in one's rep to wheel out from time to time.

Black faces unpleasant problems in the a4, Bc4, Ba2 intending Qe2 followed by Rd1 lines.

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #30 - 05/22/10 at 23:30:37
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Lou_Cyber wrote on 05/05/10 at 09:57:58:
The Lion/Philidor/Hanham has been getting much press lately,

An "Explosive chess Repertoire" fits in really nicely with this d6 move order also. It puts the question to d4 players, for I don't know how many will be prepared going into the Philidor if they play d4, e4, probably hoping for a pirc.
  
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #29 - 05/22/10 at 18:34:52
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Bibs wrote on 05/19/10 at 07:26:16:
You having a laugh?
...
2. Bologan is a sensible, high-ranking GM, not a club chancer.

Tony Kosten devoted a chapter of "Winning with the Philidor" to 3...f5, and thought it "completely viable".

Anyway, we club chancers make up a large proportion of the market.
  
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Re: Bologan on Philidor
Reply #28 - 05/21/10 at 07:24:56
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Quote:
You having a laugh?
1. It is a DVD.
2. Bologan is a sensible, high-ranking GM, not a club chancer.


Thank you for your remarks. It's true, I always laugh to be interested in stupid variants, not as GM Bologan!  Cheesy
  
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