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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C20-C59: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms (Read 34548 times)
ChessMonkey
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #31 - 07/14/10 at 17:39:47
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I'll have to check the Kindermann disk; I downloaded the DVD into ISO files (using Roxio) so it's permanently on my laptop now.  I just got the Emms book and have spent about 2 hrs on just quickly playing through the first few chapters.  I spent last night watching the All-Star game and creating a new Chessbase database with the games from Emms' book by finding them in Mega Database and copying them into the new database so I can more quickly play through the games and, as time allows, I'll add his notations and my observations to the games (of course, Everyman could just have come out with an eBook and I wouldn't have to do all that!).  Copied the first 18 games from Emms last night and all were on my Mega Database except one (which I did manually; a few others were annotated by others).  Hope to finish before Saturday since I'll be travelling over the weekend and woud like to get a better feel for this opening by playing through the database while I'm on my long bus ride, as it is very solid, yet offers great chances.
« Last Edit: 07/14/10 at 21:07:52 by ChessMonkey »  
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ruhroh
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #30 - 07/13/10 at 05:23:43
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The theory from the Kindermann DVD is in a PGN file on the disk. Sorry.
  
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #29 - 07/10/10 at 16:33:42
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I have just received this and spent a little time reading some of it, in particular the Classical Main Line. My conclusion is that Emms' book is ideally suited to go with Kindermann's DVD if you want to play this line.

Kindermann is superb at explaining various positional motifs and some move order finesses, but lacks higher-level organization and the theory is difficult to extract (bring your notebook and DVD remote). Emms is very good on the higher-level organization, broad plans and so forth, and the theory is easily accessible.  Also, the theory is essentially identical, so they are both consistent interpretations. Both are well executed.

I am very happy with the combination.
  
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #28 - 06/22/10 at 16:24:25
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ChessMonkey wrote on 06/22/10 at 13:50:06:
I've been a Ruy Lopez player for decades, but decided to try something else vs. 1...e5 and recently got the Kindermann DVD.  Although there are some production issues with it as you mentioned (and it has no associated PGN database), I've generally found it useful and have been playing the lines with good success.  Pardon my ignorance, what is the "peer variation" you mentioned and which Collins DVD is being referenced here (is it really worth it if I have Kindermann and get Emms book when it becomes available in the U.S.)?

No, it's not worth getting if you have Kindermann and Emms (judging by the preview - I haven't got it yet). Collins' DVD is a Chessbase 1.e4 Repertoire and the Italian part is tiny in comparison with Kindermann. But I got Collins first and I don't regret it.

By peer variation I mean the Two Knights entry sequence where Black doesn't transpose with 4...Bc5 but plays 4...Be7 instead. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d3 Be7. Collins recommends and examines 6.a4 with Adams-Onischuk, Tilburg Fontys 1997 as a model. Emms seems to take a different path.

I can't remember where I heard about it, if indeed I did, but I have a dim memory that Kindermann has more material coming, which would be very welcome. What he has done with this DVD is quite unique in my experience and very helpful to patzers like me.
  
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ChessMonkey
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #27 - 06/22/10 at 13:50:06
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ruhroh wrote on 05/24/10 at 15:33:02:
I have both Kindermann's and Collins' DVDs and I like them both alot. Kindermann's is clearly the most didactic with much more lesson-based material and a full DVD on the lines, but I found Collins' presentation (of the Giuoco) to be very, very instructive in so far as it goes - the best part of his DVD. Also, Collins has material on the Two Knights "peer" variation which is not part of Kindermann's scope.

I've been a Ruy Lopez player for decades, but decided to try something else vs. 1...e5 and recently got the Kindermann DVD.  Although there are some production issues with it as you mentioned (and it has no associated PGN database), I've generally found it useful and have been playing the lines with good success.  Pardon my ignorance, what is the "peer variation" you mentioned and which Collins DVD is being referenced here (is it really worth it if I have Kindermann and get Emms book when it becomes available in the U.S.)?
  
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #26 - 06/19/10 at 21:06:33
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This book appears to be out now, at least in the UK. Does anyone who has seen it have any comments? For example (as kylemeister has already mentioned), it would be interesting to know what the book has to say about the line 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.d3 Nc6 4.Nf3 Bc5 5.c3 a6 6.Bb3 Ba7 7.0-0 d6 8.Re1 Ng4, in which Emms got horribly mauled last month. Indeed his opponent's attack seems almost to have played itself. Emms presumably regarded his 9.Re2 as an improvement on 9.d4, which had also allowed Black a vicious attack in Langer-Chen, US Open 2009 (though White managed to survive the attack and win).
  
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #25 - 05/24/10 at 15:33:02
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Paddy wrote on 05/22/10 at 11:09:41:
For any stronger club players who want to take up this line, I can recommend the DVD by Kindermann, which I found much more instructive than the one by Collins.


I have both Kindermann's and Collins' DVDs and I like them both alot. Kindermann's is clearly the most didactic with much more lesson-based material and a full DVD on the lines, but I found Collins' presentation (of the Giuoco) to be very, very instructive in so far as it goes - the best part of his DVD. Also, Collins has material on the Two Knights "peer" variation which is not part of Kindermann's scope.

Mine is the perspective of a weaker player. Collins' comparison of White's versus Black's d-pawn breaks, for example, really helped me assess the positions. And his explanation of move order nuances was clearer IMHO. This is probably not as valuable to a stronger player.

It's very encouraging to see material with the scope and didactic approach of Kindermann's DVD come to market though. I don't think I've seen anything to compare with it and I would welcome lots more. It is very well conceived and executed (production quality aside).
  
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #24 - 05/24/10 at 06:44:23
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MNb wrote on 05/24/10 at 01:22:43:
The idea was that your answer would show that the strong/stronger player argument is not terribly relevant. It did.


really? I though it showed quite the opposite:

I said the Italian was dangerous in the hands of a strong player (Velimirovic is a strong player)

and (contra Willempie) that the strong player didn't have to be much stronger than his opponents in order for the Italian to be dangerous (as you noted, Velimirovic wasn't much stronger than his opponents)

cheers Smiley
  

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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #23 - 05/24/10 at 01:22:43
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Jonathan Tait wrote on 05/23/10 at 18:04:24:
MNb wrote on 05/22/10 at 16:30:40:
Then is/was Velimirovic a strong or a much stronger player? Against 4 players of average about 2500 plus Planinec he scored 5/5 as White.


is that a serious question?

obviously he's a strong player; and equally obviously he's not much stronger than players rated 2500


It was a half serious question. The idea was that your answer would show that the strong/stronger player argument is not terribly relevant. It did.
  

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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #22 - 05/23/10 at 18:04:24
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MNb wrote on 05/22/10 at 16:30:40:
Then is/was Velimirovic a strong or a much stronger player? Against 4 players of average about 2500 plus Planinec he scored 5/5 as White.


is that a serious question?

obviously he's a strong player; and equally obviously he's not much stronger than players rated 2500
  

blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #21 - 05/23/10 at 15:36:30
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Willempie wrote on 05/23/10 at 15:10:14:
a few games against decent opposition will quickly force you to look elsewhere (1st hand experience Wink).

I only needed two as White. Wink
  

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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #20 - 05/23/10 at 15:10:14
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MNb wrote on 05/23/10 at 13:40:25:
That tells us zero about Velimirovic and the meaning of strong and much stronger in relation to him playing a goofy opening. Not that I think the Giuoco Pianissimo (c3 and d3) a goofy opening. It's just that arguments like these don't impress me too much.

Simply put: you can win with whatever opening you play. It is just that with some openings those chances are increased. So yes you can win with the Giuoco piannissimo with c3 and the odds of getting run over by a better black are also not high, but the line is quite boring and a few games against decent opposition will quickly force you to look elsewhere (1st hand experience Wink). Not because the opening is bad, but because it isnt asking black too many questions. Unless you like very quiet positions (or are a stockholder of coffee companies) you shouldnt bother with these lines.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #19 - 05/23/10 at 13:40:25
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That tells us zero about Velimirovic and the meaning of strong and much stronger in relation to him playing a goofy opening. Not that I think the Giuoco Pianissimo (c3 and d3) a goofy opening. It's just that arguments like these don't impress me too much.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #18 - 05/23/10 at 11:51:10
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MNb wrote on 05/22/10 at 16:30:40:
Then is/was Velimirovic a strong or a much stronger player? Against 4 players of average about 2500 plus Planinec he scored 5/5 as White.

At the Euwe matches Anne Haast tried this agaisnt Dennis de Vreugt, with 0/2

Lane also got creamed by Malaniuk with this line this year.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Beating 1.e4 e5 by Emms
Reply #17 - 05/22/10 at 16:30:40
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Then is/was Velimirovic a strong or a much stronger player? Against 4 players of average about 2500 plus Planinec he scored 5/5 as White.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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