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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5 (Read 10883 times)
Ametanoitos
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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #11 - 06/01/10 at 18:59:17
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kylemeister wrote on 06/01/10 at 15:21:38:
Ametanoitos wrote on 06/01/10 at 09:25:16:
According to GM Papaioannou, in every exchange variation in the Caro Kan (including Panov) Black can play ...g6 and reach a comfortable position. This is a case here also.


Well, the 5...g6 Panov is the sort of line which has long been given as "+=", and seems to be considered a bit iffy.  I think that was also the gist of a Yearbook article on it not too long ago.



Yes, but according to Bologan on hos DVD it is OK. The engines seem to agree.
  
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Bresando
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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #10 - 06/01/10 at 16:16:18
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I think the mentioned line is usually called the " Apocalypse Attack";
This is an article i have found some time ago on this nice website:

http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/articles/opening/apocalypse/apocalypse.htm

It's a pretty detailed article, and the author seems to agree that ...g6 setups are stronger than ...e6 ones, but i vaguely remember reading in this forum that later analysis showed ...g6 lines as weaker. Try to search in the older posts "apocalypse attack". I hope this helps!
  
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kylemeister
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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #9 - 06/01/10 at 15:21:38
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Ametanoitos wrote on 06/01/10 at 09:25:16:
According to GM Papaioannou, in every exchange variation in the Caro Kan (including Panov) Black can play ...g6 and reach a comfortable position. This is a case here also.


Well, the 5...g6 Panov is the sort of line which has long been given as "+=", and seems to be considered a bit iffy.  I think that was also the gist of a Yearbook article on it not too long ago.
  
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Spongebobiscool
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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #8 - 06/01/10 at 15:11:43
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Thanks for your replies! How can I forget that the pawn is still on d2, it must have been late Smiley

I think I'm going for the setup with g6, ignoring the knight on e5 for a while. Maybe f6/e5 is also possible, although this is very optimistic Smiley
  
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MNb
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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #7 - 06/01/10 at 10:10:31
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GrizzleBazzle wrote on 06/01/10 at 05:26:03:
After 5...Qc7 6. d4 e6 7. Bf4 Bd6, there is no threat of Ng6, and it looks to me that black is fine.

Black has the little but lasting problem of developing Bc8 after say 8.0-0. Moreover White may try 8.Qg4 or 8.Qh5.
  

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Ametanoitos
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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #6 - 06/01/10 at 09:25:16
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According to GM Papaioannou, in every exchange variation in the Caro Kan (including Panov) Black can play ...g6 and reach a comfortable position. This is a case here also.
  
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GrizzleBazzle
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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #5 - 06/01/10 at 05:26:03
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Spongebobiscool wrote on 06/01/10 at 00:07:37:
After ...Qc7 white would play Bf4, with the obvious threat Ng6, and the queen would have to make another move  Huh


White would still have to play d4. After 5...Qc7 6. d4 e6 7. Bf4 Bd6, there is no threat of Ng6, and it looks to me that black is fine. Even if black were to play something like 5...Nf6, he will still have ...Qa5+ until white castles, which should give him enough time to get his pieces out.
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #4 - 06/01/10 at 01:06:48
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The one time I've gotten to face it I went with Nf6/g6/Bg7/0-0/Bf5 (which it turns out is the way my theoretical sources suggest for equality, unknowing as I was at the time), etc. The line ends up having similarity to normal exchange lines. If they play Bb5+ then Nbd7 works fine in that case.
  

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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #3 - 06/01/10 at 00:28:23
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That was my first thought, until I realized it would have to jump over a pawn.
  
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Spongebobiscool
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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #2 - 06/01/10 at 00:07:37
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After ...Qc7 white would play Bf4, with the obvious threat Ng6, and the queen would have to make another move  Huh
  
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GrizzleBazzle
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Re: 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
Reply #1 - 05/31/10 at 19:04:32
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Spongebobiscool wrote on 05/31/10 at 16:58:50:
My dear chess friends,

Could anybody tell me how I should play against this line? I would like to get rid of this knight on e5, but I couldn't really find a good way to do this. I'm not that eager to give up the bishop pair after for instance 4...Nc6 5. Bb5 Bd7 6. Nxd7 Qxd7 (or the same motive in other variations). Maybe I should just stick to this line and argue that the pair of bishops isn't that important in this type of position. But maybe there is a better continuation, after all white is probably playing this in order to get the pair of bishops Smiley

How have you Caro-Kann players dealt with this variation? I find it quite annoying to be honest, although it's a silly line in my opinion Embarrassed

Thanks in advance.


Instead of 5...Bd7, why not 5...Qc7?
  
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Spongebobiscool
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1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Ne5
05/31/10 at 16:58:50
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My dear chess friends,

Could anybody tell me how I should play against this line? I would like to get rid of this knight on e5, but I couldn't really find a good way to do this. I'm not that eager to give up the bishop pair after for instance 4...Nc6 5. Bb5 Bd7 6. Nxd7 Qxd7 (or the same motive in other variations). Maybe I should just stick to this line and argue that the pair of bishops isn't that important in this type of position. But maybe there is a better continuation, after all white is probably playing this in order to get the pair of bishops Smiley

How have you Caro-Kann players dealt with this variation? I find it quite annoying to be honest, although it's a silly line in my opinion Embarrassed

Thanks in advance.
  
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