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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov (Read 50104 times)
BlkSabb
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Re: Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
Reply #10 - 06/08/10 at 16:26:03
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They call it the New Archangel in the Everyman book from 2000 and in every article I've seen on it.  I'm sticking with that name.  I don't see any reason to name it after Tkachiev.

It's great that Shirov is doing a new DVD on it.  I remember on one of his Spanish DVDs he mentioned that he and a group of top GMs had analysed one of the main positions out until something like move 30 but that he wasn't allowed to reveal any of it!  Maybe he can talk about this now on the new DVD.  I think he devoted a lot of time to it on his Spanish 3 DVD already.
  
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Re: Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
Reply #9 - 06/08/10 at 03:54:26
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After 7…d5 8.d4 I have 9 games in Mega2010 with both players above 2600 with the result  4 games draw,  5 games 1-0 and 0 games 0-1 (totally: 8...dxe4 62 games 59,7%, 8...exd4 1 game 100% and 8...Bd6 1 game 100%)

I also started Fritz12 while looking in the database and he evaluates 7...d5 8.d4 as +=. Agree that this doesn’t say very much but all things together.

Shirov -  Ivanchuk 1-0, 1998 and Shirov – Onischuk ˝-1/2, 1999 and Topalov-Shirov 1-0, 2001. The only Shirov games I have in Mega2010l. Svidler has 3-0 against opponents between 2557-2669.

I think it is not totally wrong to say that the statement “ 7.Bc2 is inferior to 7.Bc3” is a bit stretched

What is pointing in the other direction?
  

What kind of proof is that?
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Re: Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
Reply #8 - 06/08/10 at 01:18:15
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Daniel wrote on 06/07/10 at 12:43:17:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Bc5 6.c3 b5 7.Bc2 d5.

The general consensus is that c2 is a better square for the bishop than b3. This particular case might be an exception indeed, depending on the strength onf 7...d5. Shirov has lost twice with it, but Onischuk has drawn a couple of times against first class opponents.
Is there a route to an advantage for White after 7...d5 ? If not Daniel has a strong case.
  

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Re: Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
Reply #7 - 06/07/10 at 16:40:14
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In my Mega2010 there are about 1000 games with 6.c3 and about 840 games with other than 6...c3. and after 6.c3 7.b5 the statistics in Mega shows:

Move      Games   Score      
7.Bb3      399         56.5%
7.Bc2      307         60.1%

Perhaps this figures don’t prove very much but I fail to see them supporting  that  “almost allgames transposes” (only 399 of roughly 1800 games) neither that “7.Bc2 should be inferior to 7.Bc3”.
  

What kind of proof is that?
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Re: Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
Reply #6 - 06/07/10 at 15:12:27
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I have usually seen 5...Bc5 6. c3 b5 7. Bc2 given as better for White than 7. Bb3 (= 5...b5 6. Bb3 Bc5 7. c3), but never, as far as I know, the other way around.
  
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Re: Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
Reply #5 - 06/07/10 at 12:43:17
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Yeah but the Moller almost always transposes to the Neo Archangel unless white plays 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Bc5 6. c3 b5 7. Bc2 which is an inferior square to b3 as it allows 7... d5.
  
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Re: Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
Reply #4 - 06/07/10 at 11:35:11
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kylemeister wrote on 06/06/10 at 16:34:24:
The Möller is ...Bc5 on move 5, as far as I know.  ...b5 and ...Bc5 has been called the Neo-Archangel.


Yes, the nomenclatur in wikipedia tells:
4...Nf6 5.0-0 b5 6.Bb3 Bc5 (Modern Archangel Defence)
4...Nf6 5.0-0 Bc5 (Mřller Defence)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruy_Lopez
  

What kind of proof is that?
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Re: Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
Reply #3 - 06/06/10 at 16:34:24
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The Möller is ...Bc5 on move 5, as far as I know.  ...b5 and ...Bc5 has been called the Neo-Archangel.
  
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Re: Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
Reply #2 - 06/06/10 at 16:25:21
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Mortal Games wrote on 06/04/10 at 10:33:45:
The variation against the Ruy Lopez presented in meticulous detail by Alexei Shirov (3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 b5 6.Bb3 Bc5) has so far had no recognised name and Shirov himself has named it after Vladislav Tkachiev, the 2007 European champion, the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez. In fact the grandmaster from Kazakhstan has played a few important games with this system, but it would have been just as justified to name the variation after our author himself, because since 1996 Shirov has not only played numerous games with it, but recently he has turned it into his main weapon against 1.e4 - with splendid success and a lot of imitators. The super grandmaster now shares all this collected knowledge with his viewers. Apart from the Exchange Variation (to which Shirov also devotes a model game) White has hardly any serious deviation after 3.Bb5, making of the Tkachiev Variation a good weapon against the Ruy Lopez. Video running time: 6 hours.


Strange, I thought this line was known for the longest time as The Moller Variation of the Ruy.

Tops Smiley
  

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Re: Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
Reply #1 - 06/04/10 at 11:52:53
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definitely picking this up.  I love Shirov's videos.  Always great observations, analysis, and secrets such as when he provided to unplayed refutation to his own 5. g4 in the Philidor.
  
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Mortal Games
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Guide to the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez - Shirov
06/04/10 at 10:33:45
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The variation against the Ruy Lopez presented in meticulous detail by Alexei Shirov (3...a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 b5 6.Bb3 Bc5) has so far had no recognised name and Shirov himself has named it after Vladislav Tkachiev, the 2007 European champion, the Tkachiev Ruy Lopez. In fact the grandmaster from Kazakhstan has played a few important games with this system, but it would have been just as justified to name the variation after our author himself, because since 1996 Shirov has not only played numerous games with it, but recently he has turned it into his main weapon against 1.e4 - with splendid success and a lot of imitators. The super grandmaster now shares all this collected knowledge with his viewers. Apart from the Exchange Variation (to which Shirov also devotes a model game) White has hardly any serious deviation after 3.Bb5, making of the Tkachiev Variation a good weapon against the Ruy Lopez. Video running time: 6 hours.
  

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