Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1. f4 f5 ? (Read 11916 times)
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1386
Location: Germany
Joined: 02/11/09
Gender: Male
Re: 1. f4 f5 ?
Reply #10 - 06/13/10 at 12:50:18
Post Tools
3.Nc3 is less advantageous than 3.Nf3. Black can also choose the move order 1.f4 Nc6 2.Nf3 e5 (3.fxe5 g5) which avoids the Nc3 treatment. 

Edward Winter's fine research regarding the "Swiss Gambit" (see rukh's link above) should have been mentioned in the Kaissiber article. But while the symmetrical 1.f4 f5 deemed natural to the players of the 19th century, it has become very rare nowadays. Nothing which I'd like to study in depth. Maybe White can just play 2.d3 Nf6 3.Nf3 with a kind of delayed From 4.e4, avoiding Bg4 ideas. Or a normal Bird.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Online


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10709
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: 1. f4 f5 ?
Reply #9 - 06/13/10 at 11:59:00
Post Tools
Fromper wrote on 06/13/10 at 03:43:34:
After 1. f4 e5 2. fxe5 Nc6, Taylor's "Bird's Opening" book says that white should stick to 3. Nc3 instead of 3. Nf3, specifically because g5 works better here than in the normal From's Gambit lines.

That Kaissiber article made a very strong case for 3.Nf3 g5 4.h3. After the independent 1.f4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.g4 h6 5.g5 hxg5 6.fxg5 Nh5 7.Nxe4 d5 I don't particularly like White.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: 1. f4 f5 ?
Reply #8 - 06/13/10 at 09:39:23
Post Tools
After 1.f4 f5 2.b3, 2...Nf6 3.Bb2 e6 looks like an improvement. Then I don't see any problems for Black.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 378
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
Re: 1. f4 f5 ?
Reply #7 - 06/13/10 at 03:43:34
Post Tools
SWJediknight wrote on 06/13/10 at 00:43:18:
Perhaps 4...h6 is the way for Black to go in that line, by analogy with 1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 Nc6 3.Nf3 g5 4.h3! which is White's only route to advantage in the colours reversed version (source: Kaissiber 36).

After 1. f4 e5 2. fxe5 Nc6, Taylor's "Bird's Opening" book says that white should stick to 3. Nc3 instead of 3. Nf3, specifically because g5 works better here than in the normal From's Gambit lines.
  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
SWJediknight
God Member
*****
Offline


Alert... opponent out
of book!

Posts: 914
Joined: 03/14/08
Re: 1. f4 f5 ?
Reply #6 - 06/13/10 at 00:43:18
Post Tools
Perhaps 4...h6 is the way for Black to go in that line, by analogy with 1.f4 e5 2.fxe5 Nc6 3.Nf3 g5 4.h3! which is White's only route to advantage in the colours reversed version (source: Kaissiber 36).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
rukh
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 63
Location: Finland
Joined: 08/27/09
Gender: Male
Re: 1. f4 f5 ?
Reply #5 - 06/12/10 at 19:52:56
Post Tools
Here are some games on the 1 f4 f5 2 e4 fxe4 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 g4 line.

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/swiss.html

It worked very well in correspondence 100 years ago, so i think it should work in OTB games where not many have prepared for it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SWJediknight
God Member
*****
Offline


Alert... opponent out
of book!

Posts: 914
Joined: 03/14/08
Re: 1. f4 f5 ?
Reply #4 - 06/07/10 at 19:31:32
Post Tools
Here's the relevant article in Wikipedia which gives 1.f4 f5 2.e4 a mention:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bird%27s_Opening

Some sources, particularly in the 1990s, tended to overestimate the strength of From's Gambit for Black, so perhaps that influences the recommendation of 1.f4 f5 2.e4.

Since the tempo f2-f4 isn't particularly useful and White has played 1.f4 as opposed to the Staunton Gambit's 1.d4, I don't think it should objectively be good- probably somewhere in the region = to =+ with best play- but like the From proper it could score quite well OTB.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BirdBrain
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 168
Joined: 05/29/09
Re: 1. f4 f5 ?
Reply #3 - 06/07/10 at 19:26:00
Post Tools
I always play 2. e4, with great results.  Don't let Taylor's approach deter you from having fun.  Go for it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 378
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
Re: 1. f4 f5 ?
Reply #2 - 06/07/10 at 16:45:01
Post Tools
Yeah, but I'd always heard that 2. e4 was the way to go, and I hadn't studied the line at all before it came up in a blitz game, so I was trying to play it like From's Gambit reversed on my first attempt with no preparation.

Then I looked it up afterward and saw that Taylor doesn't think that approach really works. So now I'm considering other options, or whether I want to try sticking with the gambit, anyway.

I still need to read through the details of Taylor's recommended b3 approach, but that does seem potentially quiet and boring - not really my style.
  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Signalman
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2
Joined: 02/06/10
Re: 1. f4 f5 ?
Reply #1 - 06/07/10 at 16:04:49
Post Tools
Actually, Taylor recommends 2.b3 as in Sznapik - Wiesniak, Warsaw 1979, or with a different move order Larsen - Colon, Romero, San Juan 1969
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 378
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
1. f4 f5 ?
06/07/10 at 15:07:17
Post Tools
So now that I'm playing the Bird regularly, I've started running into this response occasionally.

Taylor's "Bird's Opening" book seems to think that the gambit approach (2. e4) is probably not quite sound. It can't be played exactly like From's Gambit with an extra tempo, because black can play Bg4 against the strongest lines, when white can't play f2-f3 to block it. I tried the gambit in a couple of blitz games anyway, and my opponents didn't know how to handle it well, so I did ok. But I don't know if I want to play that way in slow tournament games against stronger opposition.

What do the rest of you think? What's best for white after 1. f4 f5?
  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo