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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What do you think of the Tartakower? (Read 19079 times)
kylemeister
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #35 - 09/13/10 at 06:15:36
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Yes.
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #34 - 09/12/10 at 23:52:33
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Kyle: Are you referring to Sokolov's "Winning Chess Middlegames"
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #33 - 07/10/10 at 19:36:49
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1.d4 d5 2.c4, e6 3.Nc3 Nf6. 4.Nf3 Be7 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 0-0. 7.e3 b6 8.Be2 Bb7 9.Bxf6 Bxf6 10.cxd5 exd5 11.b4 c6 12.0-0 Re8 13.Qb3 a5 14.bxa5 Rxa5 15.a4 Nd7 16.Rfe1

LeeRoth wrote on 07/10/10 at 16:17:46:
As for your line with 16..Ba6, after 17.Bxa6 Rxa6, as far as I know, it is thought that the plan of doubling on the c-file is slightly better for White, so play may go instead 18.Re2 (and not 18.e4) 18..Re6 19.Rc2 Be7 20. Rc1.


The logical plan for Black seems to me 18...Nf8 19.Rc2 Ne6 20.Rac1 Qa8 and I don't see why Black should be worse.
  

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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #32 - 07/10/10 at 17:04:36
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BPaulsen wrote on 07/10/10 at 16:54:14:
They usually just transpose (Nd7-f8-e6 or Na6-c7-e6).


Oh, right.  Duh.  Embarrassed   Thanks for pointing that out.
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #31 - 07/10/10 at 16:54:14
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They usually just transpose (Nd7-f8-e6 or Na6-c7-e6).
  

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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #30 - 07/10/10 at 16:25:28
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BPaulsen wrote on 07/09/10 at 11:49:48:
After 24. Qb5 in the long line you cite I'm not sure I'd be that comfortable with black. Sure, black has practical compensation and may be easy to play OTB, but it's not the sort I'd fancy against good technique.

Isn't 11. b4 c5 equal as well? Last I checked it was...not sure that black needs to "find" anything unless it's simply for the sake of aiming for the full point.


This may have been discussed in a prior thread, but in the "long line" instead of 13..Na6, Black also, of course, has 13..Nd7.

  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #29 - 07/10/10 at 16:17:46
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Ametanoitos wrote on 07/09/10 at 09:54:36:
As i see it now, i'm wondering what is the problem for Black after 12.b4 c6 13.O-O Re8 (no Ne5 for White!) 14.Qb3 a5! 15.bxa5! (now 15.b5? c5! is strong for Black) 15...Rxa5 16.a4 Nd7 (Sokolov doesn't say much for this position in his book) 17.Rfe1 (this is NCO's proposal, Atalik's games and analysis in Megabase shows that no other mov e is critical) 17...Ba6! 18.Bxa6 Rxa6 and now 19.e4 is supposed to be better for white but Dautov gives 19...dxe4 20.Nxe4 Re6 21.Ra2 (this is given as '!' in many sources) and now 21...Ra8 is Dautov's improvement with the sign "=" given by him. This makes me wonder if ...Re8 and then ...a5 is more accurate after all so as to sidestep this Ne5 issue


Ametanoitos, a small favor if you please.  It would help if you could give the opening moves of the lines you want to discuss, as I think your move order may be a little off (in your earlier post you had 11..c6 already in).  But whatever the move order, yes, I agree with you that ..Re8 is the way to go so as to avoid White's Ne5 lines.  This, btw, is what Kasparov recommends in his Modern Chess series.  After 11. b4 c6 12.0-0, he even calls 12..a5 "slightly premature" presumably due to the 13.b5 c5 14.Ne5 line. 

After 11.b4 c6 12.0-0 Re8 13.Qb3 a5 14.bxa5 Rxa5 15.a4 Nd7 16.Rfe1 Kasparov gives 16..g6 as best and then 17.e4 c5 with equality, following the rapid game Karpov-Short, Amber 1993. 

Kasaprov doesn't examine 17.Rab1, which led to a good position for White in Epishin-Lutz, Dortmund 1994, but Black's play can be improved in that game, and I don't think Black is worse.

As for your line with 16..Ba6, after 17.Bxa6 Rxa6, as far as I know, it is thought that the plan of doubling on the c-file is slightly better for White, so play may go instead 18.Re2 (and not 18.e4) 18..Re6 19.Rc2 Be7 20. Rc1.

  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #28 - 07/10/10 at 12:05:06
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Yes, you have a point. Black is a tempo down  Embarrassed
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #27 - 07/10/10 at 11:44:33
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Doesn't Black lose a tempo compared to some lines, as White plays Bg5xf6 iso Bg5-h4xh6 ? It seems to me that in this line Black is even worse off than after 5...0-0 6.e3 b6 etcetera, when White at least has to play Bd3 and Qc2 (or b1) to force the loss of tempo ...h6 (and Black sometimes can play ...g6 instead).
  

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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #26 - 07/10/10 at 10:44:06
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After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bg5 h6!? 6.Bxf6 Bxf6 7.e3 isthere something wrong with 7...b6 trying to get a Tartakower main line and avoid some theory after 7...O-O 8.Rc1 or 8.Qc2 etc?
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #25 - 07/09/10 at 18:26:05
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If White doesn't play b4 then ...Qe7 and Rd8 seems to be the preference of many sources. I just play ...Re8 and the Nto e6 manouvre just because i want less patterns to work with (simplicity). Both lines (Re8 and Qe7+Rd8) seem to equalise. What is the most ambitious? Maybe it is the Qe7 plan.

After b4 the plan with ...c5 equalises as Gelfand recently showed but it is not ambitious. I have come to the conclusion that in the ...c6 lines Black should not allow Ne5 and play first Re8 and then ...a5.
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #24 - 07/09/10 at 16:41:33
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Ametanoitos wrote on 07/09/10 at 09:54:36:
As i see it now, i'm wondering what is the problem for Black after 12.b4 c6 13.O-O Re8 (no Ne5 for White!) 14.Qb3 a5! 15.bxa5! (now 15.b5? c5! is strong for Black) 15...Rxa5 16.a4 Nd7 (Sokolov doesn't say much for this position in his book) 17.Rfe1 (this is NCO's proposal, Atalik's games and analysis in Megabase shows that no other mov e is critical) 17...Ba6! 18.Bxa6 Rxa6 and now 19.e4 is supposed to be better for white but Dautov gives 19...dxe4 20.Nxe4 Re6 21.Ra2 (this is given as '!' in many sources) and now 21...Ra8 is Dautov's improvement with the sign "=" given by him. This makes me wonder if ...Re8 and then ...a5 is more accurate after all so as to sidestep this Ne5 issue


Brenninkmeijer,J (2490) - Hedke,F (2350) [D58]
Groningen op Groningen (4), 1994
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 0–0 7.e3 b6 8.Be2 Bb7 9.Bxf6 Bxf6 10.cxd5 exd5 11.b4 c6 12.0–0 Re8 13.Qb3 a5 14.bxa5 Rxa5 15.a4 Ba6 16.Bxa6 Rxa6 17.Rfe1 Nd7 18.e4 dxe4 19.Nxe4 Ra8 20.Rad1 Qc7 21.Qc4 Rac8 22.Rc1 Be7 23.g3 Qb7 24.Rb1 Bf8 25.Re3 Re6 26.Qb3 c5 27.d5 Ree8 28.Qc4 f5 29.Nc3 Rxe3 30.fxe3 Re8 31.Qf4 Nf6 32.Nh4 Qa6 33.Rd1 Qa5 34.Nb5 Re4 35.Qf3 Rxa4 36.Nc7 Ra1 37.Nxf5 Qa4 38.Rxa1 Qxa1+ 39.Kg2 Qb2+ 40.Kh3 g6 41.Nd4 Bg7 42.Nc6 g5 43.g4 h5 44.Qf5 hxg4+ 45.Kg3 Qe2 ½–½

Inspired by the two threads on the Tartakower I have looked a bit at this variation (11.b4 and 12.0-0). It seems to me that this setup (Re8 and a5) is Black's most ambitious try. An idea might be 16...Qa8, which also has been tried.

Regarding 11.0-0 c6 12.Qb3 I wonder if immediately Re8 is best. In my unreliable notes I have 12...Na6/13...Nc7 and the rook may go to d8 iso e8. I haven't everything figured out, but noticed that both Nb8-a6-c7-e6 and Nb8-d7-f8-e6 may lead to the same positions. The latter may have the advantage of having the option of playing an earlier ...c5.
Can anybody tell if I have missed something?
  

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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #23 - 07/09/10 at 12:55:30
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After looking closer I don't know why 22. Bc4 is even best besides the engine initially liking it, because it's extremely counterintuitive (why bother with g3/Bf1 just to play Bc4 which doesn't even threaten something?). 22. axb6 seems like the better way to go, answering anything besides 22...Qxb6 with Bg2.

After 22. axb6 black should eventually reach full equality, but if winning chances were the original goal, then they're non-existent. All this means is black has a second route to securing the draw besides 11...c5.
  

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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #22 - 07/09/10 at 12:19:10
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Black can improve with 23....Qe7 first and then play ...Bxb6 or ...axb6 with full comp for the pawn. I don't like the look of White's position and not a single titled player that joined the analysis believed that Black is worse here.

Yes, i agree with the solutions you provide (the ...c5 move in the two variations you give). The only problem is that Black doesn't play for the win here. Not that the chances of winning are not existant but the lines with ...c6 maintain a certain amount of potential in Black's position.

As i see now, Rizzitano gives 12...Re8 (instead of 12...a5) as equal.
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #21 - 07/09/10 at 11:49:48
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After 24. Qb5 in the long line you cite I'm not sure I'd be that comfortable with black. Sure, black has practical compensation and may be easy to play OTB, but it's not the sort I'd fancy against good technique.

Isn't 11. b4 c5 equal as well? Last I checked it was...not sure that black needs to "find" anything unless it's simply for the sake of aiming for the full point.
  

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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #20 - 07/09/10 at 09:54:36
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As i see it now, i'm wondering what is the problem for Black after 12.b4 c6 13.O-O Re8 (no Ne5 for White!) 14.Qb3 a5! 15.bxa5! (now 15.b5? c5! is strong for Black) 15...Rxa5 16.a4 Nd7 (Sokolov doesn't say much for this position in his book) 17.Rfe1 (this is NCO's proposal, Atalik's games and analysis in Megabase shows that no other mov e is critical) 17...Ba6! 18.Bxa6 Rxa6 and now 19.e4 is supposed to be better for white but Dautov gives 19...dxe4 20.Nxe4 Re6 21.Ra2 (this is given as '!' in many sources) and now 21...Ra8 is Dautov's improvement with the sign "=" given by him. This makes me wonder if ...Re8 and then ...a5 is more accurate after all so as to sidestep this Ne5 issue
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #19 - 07/09/10 at 08:53:54
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Some more updates in some critical lines we analysed at the Greek league:

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 Be7 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 O-O 7. e3 b6 8. Be2 Bb7 9. Bxf6 Bxf6 10. cxd5 exd5 11. O-O

(Critical is 11. b4 c6 12. O-O a5 13. b5 c5 14. Ne5
Qc7

(We didn't like 14... Bxe5 15. dxe5 d4 16. exd4 cxd4 17. Na4 Qg5 18. Bg4 Qxe5 19. Nxb6 Ra7 when Rizzitano and Sokolov claim equality for Black but White can pose some problems after 20. Qb3 or 20.Rc1)

15. Ng4 (15. f4 cxd4) 15... Nd7 16. Bf3 Rad8 17. Nxd5 Bxd5 18. Bxd5 cxd4 19. Rc1 (19. exd4 Qf4 20. Rc1 Qxd4 is equal according to Sokolov and he may be right)
19... Qd6 20. e4 Nc5 21. Rc4 d3 22. f4 Rfe8 is equal according to Sokolov but better for White according to Rizzitano. Some new ideas are needed here it seems)

11... c6 12. Qb3 Re8

(12... Be7 13. Rad1 Nd7 14. Rfe1 Nf6 15. Ne5 Bd6 16.f4 Qe7 17. Bf3 is better for White even though some players liked the solidity Black's position has)

13. Rfe1 Na6 14. Rad1 Nc7 15. Bf1 Ne6 16. g3 c5 17. dxc5 d4! TN
(17... Nxc5 was discussed here in chesspub)
18. Nxd4
(18. c6 Bxc6 19. Be2 Rc8 20. Nxd4 Bxd4 21. exd4 Nxd4bLack wins)
18... Nxd4 19. exd4 Rxe1 20. Rxe1 Bxd4 21. Ne4
(21. Re2 Bxc5 22. Bg2 Ba6 23.Rc2 Qd3 24. Re2 Bc4 25. Qa4 Rd8[/color] and Black is crushing White)
([color=#0000ff]21. cxb6 Bxf2+ 22. Kxf2 Qf6
+ is winning as well)
21... Qc7 22.Bc4 Rd8 23. cxb6
(23. Bxf7+ Qxf7 24. Qxf7+ Kxf7 25. Nd6+ Rxd6 26. cxd6 Bc6 27.Re7+ Kf6 28. Rxa7 Bxb2 29. Rc7 Bb5 is a difficult ending for White)
23... Bxb6 and we all preferred Black here who is pawn down! White has difficulties to find a reasonable plan for example if he tries to put the B on g2: 24. Bf1 Qe5 25. Bg2
(25. Qb5 Rd5 26. Qe2 Qe6 27. Bg2 Re5)
25... Rd2 and Black is winning!

So, for the Tartakower fans it seems that the line with b4 and Ne5 is the only critical line that needs some care. Maybe we can combine our powers and find the solution here.

  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #18 - 07/08/10 at 10:23:32
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Ametanoitos wrote on 07/08/10 at 09:22:27:
An update: Yesterday i was showing an idea of mine in a couple of IM's and FM's in the Greek League Team Championships and this is it:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 (btw 3...a6!? is interesting here) 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bf4 O-O 6.a3!? Nbd7! 7.Nb5 Ne8 8.e3 and now the idea comes: 8...a6! 9.Nc3 dxc4! 10.Bxc4 b5 11.Bd3 c5! (else b4 comes) and Black has equalized already!


That's certainly simple enough, and a much clearer equality than the Tartakower-esque lines. I don't see how white can favorably side-step, or maintain the initiative.

It is funny it's never been noticed before since it is a very typical plan.

If 6. a3 is buried, and Nbd7 works against that, then black is equal after 5. Bf4 everywhere, even if the 6. e3 Nbd7 7. a3 lines aren't very much fun.

Aside from that, 3...a6 isn't really interesting. It usually transposes to a += line from the Nf3 QGD Exchange. It could be a good surprise weapon though.
  

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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #17 - 07/08/10 at 09:22:27
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An update: Yesterday i was showing an idea of mine in a couple of IM's and FM's in the Greek League Team Championships and this is it:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 (btw 3...a6!? is interesting here) 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Bf4 O-O 6.a3!? Nbd7! 7.Nb5 Ne8 8.e3 and now the idea comes: 8...a6! 9.Nc3 dxc4! 10.Bxc4 b5 11.Bd3 c5! (else b4 comes) and Black has equalized already!
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #16 - 07/07/10 at 06:34:00
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Atalik's analysis is contained within Stohl's annotations to the game Ametanoitos mentioned (Kramnik-Carlsen, 2009).
  

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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #15 - 07/07/10 at 02:57:31
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I took a look at Stohl's analysis. He gives 1 d4 d5; 2 c4, e6; 3 Nc3, Nf6; 4 Nf3, Be7; 5 Bg5, h6; 6 Bh4, 0-0; 7 e3, b6; 8 Be2, Bb7; 9 Bxf6, Bxf6; 10 cxd, exd; 11 b4, c5; 12 bxc, bxc; 13 Rb1, Bc6; 14 0-0, Nd7; 15 Bb5, Qc7; 16 Qd3, Rfc8; 17 Rfd1, Rab8; 18 a4, cxd; 19 exd, Bxb5 = (Gelfand).
   Do you have better lines for W after 10 Rd1. Would appreciate the link to Atalik analysis.
                 Thanks, CMA
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #14 - 06/11/10 at 20:08:03
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i have 10.Rd1 in my repertoire and i think that White has good chances of a slight advantage. Atallik's analysis is the most respected antidote here. See for example GM Stohl's comments in Kramnik-Carlsen 2009 in megabase.

It would be great to see what Mr Cox will propose in his coming book in the QGD.
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #13 - 06/11/10 at 17:34:06
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kylemeister wrote on 06/11/10 at 16:09:12:
Larry Kaufman, in a Yearbook article about nine months ago, thought that 10. Rd1 is quite pleasant for White.


I noticed that one as well, especially since in Dautov's old database from 2001 he was rather dismissive of it.

@Ametanoitos

Good find.

  

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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #12 - 06/11/10 at 16:57:50
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I like to see 10.Nd2 and 10.0-0-0 because -- whether you think its equal or slightly better for White -- it's at least a game.  But that 8.cxd5 line is a soul-sucking bit of dreariness (e.g., Leko-Kramnik from their match).  Black can hold the ending, but that's about it. 

Of course, if you're going to play the QGD as Black, you have to resign yourself to having such days.  It's hard to liven things up if White is intent on deadening the position.  Against lower-rated players, either you need to have faith in your ability to outplay them in an endgame or you need to have another opening up your sleeve.          
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #11 - 06/11/10 at 16:09:12
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Larry Kaufman, in a Yearbook article about nine months ago, thought that 10. Rd1 is quite pleasant for White.
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #10 - 06/11/10 at 14:20:24
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BPaulsen, the 10.Nd2 variation was burried by the Nielsen-Anand team with a convicing idea:

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 Be7 5. Bf4 O-O 6. e3 c5 7. dxc5 Bxc5 8. a3 Nc6 9. Qc2 Qa5 10. Nd2 Bb4 11. cxd5 exd5 12. Bd3 Nh5!
13. Bg3
(13. Nb3 Bxc3+14. bxc3 Qd8)
(13. Bxh7+ Kh8 14. Bd3 Nxf4 15. exf4 Re8+)
13... h6
(13... d4 14. Nb3 Bxc3+ 15. bxc3 Qxc3+ 16. Qxc3 dxc3 17. Rc1 Nxg3 18. hxg3 h6 19. Rxc3 Be6 20. Nc5 Ne5 21. Nxe6 Nxd3+ 22. Rxd3 fxe6 23. Ke2 =) 14. O-O Bxc3 15. Nb3 Qb6 16. Qxc3 Nxg3 17. hxg3 Rd8 18. Nc5 d4 19. exd4 Nxd4 20. Rfe1 Be6 21. Nxe6 Nxe6 22. Rac1 Rd6 23. b4 Rad8 24. Be4 Ng5 25. Bb1 Rc6 26. Qb2 Rxc1 27.
Qxc1 g6 28. Qc3 Qd4 29. Qxd4{1/2,Gelfand,B (2727)-Nielsen,P (2646)/Turin
olm/2006/}

Also, i think that Black has to be slightly worse after the ...b6 aproach but this is a very slight edge (even thought Dautov doesn't think so) and this is a good trade-off between the theory you have to know and the soundness of the position.

  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #9 - 06/10/10 at 14:16:56
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BPaulsen wrote on 06/10/10 at 12:45:19:
If white's going to bother with the Classical QGD (d4/c4/Nf3/Nc3) he should put his emphasis on 5. Bf4. 5. Bg5 is pretty much finished due to both the Tartakower and Lasker, at least if white's trying to get an edge.


A pretty bold statement!
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #8 - 06/10/10 at 12:45:19
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Ametanoitos wrote on 06/10/10 at 10:56:23:
The Catalan and the Bf4 lines. In the first case i recommend studying the chapter "White's dissapearing advantage" in the Wojo's reperoire book and for the Bf4 lines i recommend the "Tartakower-like" ...b6 variations as these were given by Dautov as equal (and were recommended by Mc Donald in his starting out book also). The tryth is that in both cases White can claim a tiny something. If you want, you can study the main line Catalan (...dxc4 and Be7 etc)and the ...c5 main lines after Bf4 and you have an equal game there also, but with the great prise of having to remember tons of complicated theory. All in all this is what i think of the Tartakower: FANTASTIC CHOICE!


Most sources I have rate the old main line of the 5. Bf4 QGD with black playing 6...c5 as slightly better for white in the continuation with 10. Nd2 (instead of 10. 0-0-0 which is tremendously theoretical and equal).

5. Bf4 0-0 6. e3 Nbd7 has gained in popularity as a result of that, and black has been doing okay there (7. a3 leads to a += ending black can hold with accurate play). The Tartakower-esque approach is likely best after 6. a3 b6, but I've been unable to punch a hole in TN's analysis there (it's posted on chesspub), to date (white can reach TN's analysis via 6. e3 b6 7. a3 if he wants, anyway). I pretty much agree white should keep slightly better chances.

If white's going to bother with the Classical QGD (d4/c4/Nf3/Nc3) he should put his emphasis on 5. Bf4. 5. Bg5 is pretty much finished due to both the Tartakower and Lasker, at least if white's trying to get an edge. For any black QGD player the Tartakower's a great choice for dealing with 5. Bg5.
  

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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #7 - 06/10/10 at 10:56:23
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The Tartakower is simply an excellent choice! Together with the Lasker they can form a life-time bullet proof repertoire. The great thing about Tartakower is that studying it you meet chess in it's highest level. Starting with Capa-Alekhine and moving to Spassky-Kasparov/Karpon, Short, Anand and the modern GMs you raise your level of understanding and playing strengh just by studying their classic games. As for the theoritical status, in the "old main lines" it cannot be better! No advantage for White! Can Black play for the win? Absolutely yes! Even in the "boring" Lasker (and i don't have in mind the Topalov-Anand game only). What is the problem? The Catalan and the Bf4 lines. In the first case i recommend studying the chapter "White's dissapearing advantage" in the Wojo's reperoire book and for the Bf4 lines i recommend the "Tartakower-like" ...b6 variations as these were given by Dautov as equal (and were recommended by Mc Donald in his starting out book also). The tryth is that in both cases White can claim a tiny something. If you want, you can study the main line Catalan (...dxc4 and Be7 etc)and the ...c5 main lines after Bf4 and you have an equal game there also, but with the great prise of having to remember tons of complicated theory. All in all this is what i think of the Tartakower: FANTASTIC CHOICE!
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #6 - 06/10/10 at 08:12:44
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Bit dull. Okay for vegetarians and old people.
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #5 - 06/09/10 at 12:39:52
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I think the Lasker is a pretty reliable equaliser and the Tartakower is quite good too but perhaps with slightly more complex play.

Getting to play either line is not so simple these days as most players play the Nimzo rather than allow the Exchange variation, or white players play Bf4 lines or most recently the Catalan.
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #4 - 06/07/10 at 20:17:34
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I would think it pretty much goes without saying that there is nothing worse than +/= awaiting Black in the Tartakower, and that a better question would be whether in fact anything like a definite +/= has been established.  A few observations:  two encyclopedias from the late '90s thought White had a (narrow) route to +/=, but three of them published between 2003 and 2008 thought the best-play lines should be equal or unclear or the like, rather than +/=.  Ivan Sokolov's discussion of various lines in his 2008/2009 book also seemed to fall on the "equal with best play" side.   
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #3 - 06/07/10 at 18:42:53
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Pingudon, you asked the same question about Tartakower 6 months ago. there's a long thread on it.  you really must like Tartakower then if that hasn't satisfied you.
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #2 - 06/07/10 at 18:40:12
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The Tartakower's theoretical status is pretty good.  I don't think there's anything worse than +/= waiting for Black, and he generally gets some counterplay in an uneven position.  It will probably make a comeback at some point (as the Lasker has, a little bit, being used by Anand and Carlsen).

There are reasons why it might not, however.  White has a very comfortable position which could be characterised as "easier to play", and the Tartakower is positionally dangerous for black; if he gets tied down the hanging pawns can be very vulnerable in the main theoretical lines, for instance.

It just isn't terribly attractive even if it is okay, and you have a broad preparation spectrum playing 1...d5, 2...e6, including the Catalan (very popular for White right now), Exchange (also presenting problems for Black), and several different versions of Queenside castling or Bc1-f4 ideas that avoid the Tartakower entirely.

For a full comeback, I think A. White needs to prove something in the Lasker and other main lines of the Bg5 QGD, and B. Black needs to patch up the Exchange and Catalan enough to make them less enticing.
  
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Re: What do you think of the Tartakower?
Reply #1 - 06/07/10 at 18:33:39
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Small correction: Anand played the QGD Lasker in his last game vs Topalov.
  
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What do you think of the Tartakower?
06/07/10 at 17:42:54
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Hi friends: I did a review of the Tartakower D58 in my data base of more than 3 million games. I put an ELO of 2000 to 2500 and it gives the following: 1-0 30%-- 1/2  52%-- 0-1 18% . It has been used for Kasparov, Karpov, Anand in his last game of the World Championship, Short etc. But it seems is not good anymore. Everyone plays slav, semislav... what has happened with the trusty and old Tartakower. Why is not in the repertoire of the Top Guns As it was in the arsenal os Spassky, Nigel Short, Karpov? I would like to hear your opinions.
  
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