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Normal Topic anti d-Pawn 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3 Nc6 4.Bf4 Qb6 (Read 5556 times)
HoemberChess
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Re: anti d-Pawn 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3 Nc6 4.Bf4 Qb6
Reply #4 - 06/09/10 at 11:19:56
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Ametanoitos wrote on 06/09/10 at 11:03:19:
This is not a flexible try for Black. White can play the French or the Open Sicilian AND 2.Bf4. In my experience very few players have d-pawn opening as the main weapon in their repertoire (and if they do they are usually weak ones, so no troubles beating them), so it seems to me very very likely that they will transpose to something else. Also, have in mind that many 1.e4 players play d-pawn openings as a starting point to a 1.d4 repertoire.

As i always advice: study the main classical lines for Black. They are sound, they raise your chess level when you play them and study them and they offer great winning chances. Sidelines and tricks like 2...e6 2.Nf3 c5 are only tricks in my eyes.


You are right too.
But I, personally, don't fear 2.e4 or 3.c4. (I am studying the Black side of the French and Symmetrical English, independently of anything else. I like those positions and find them interesting.)

In addition, I can play 1.d4 _Nf6_ occasionally, so that nobody will feel really prepared. I can check out the opponent's chess-past before the game, and decide on the move-order... (1..e6 or 1..Nf6 can both lead to my favorite 1.d4-defences.)
Plus, the Symmetrical English (3.c4) is an opening that needs to be in the repertoire of every Modern Benoni/Blumenfeld Gambit player. (That is, they are not so far away from a regular 1..Nf6-player.)

In the OP, I just hoped to read a little bit about critical positions after these particular 4 pairs of moves.

@AlanG:
Thanks.
« Last Edit: 06/10/10 at 10:27:28 by HoemberChess »  

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*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Ametanoitos
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Re: anti d-Pawn 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3 Nc6 4.Bf4 Qb6
Reply #3 - 06/09/10 at 11:03:19
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This is not a flexible try for Black. White can play the French or the Open Sicilian AND 2.Bf4. In my experience very few players have d-pawn opening as the main weapon in their repertoire (and if they do they are usually weak ones, so no troubles beating them), so it seems to me very very likely that they will transpose to something else. Also, have in mind that many 1.e4 players play d-pawn openings as a starting point to a 1.d4 repertoire.

As i always advice: study the main classical lines for Black. They are sound, they raise your chess level when you play them and study them and they offer great winning chances. Sidelines and tricks like 2...e6 2.Nf3 c5 are only tricks in my eyes.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: anti d-Pawn 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3 Nc6 4.Bf4 Qb6
Reply #2 - 06/08/10 at 23:02:47
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Remarkable.  White cannot force a main-line 1.d4 opening of any kind after 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5, not even a Benoni. 

This move-order is highly germane to the thread on 1.d4 2.Nf3 3.c4 vs. 1.d4 2.c4 3.Nf3, found under Daring Defenses.  I posted a bit more about it there, emphasizing its general anti-d4 use.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention.
« Last Edit: 06/09/10 at 02:18:17 by ReneDescartes »  
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AlanG
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Re: anti d-Pawn 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3 Nc6 4.Bf4 Qb6
Reply #1 - 06/08/10 at 21:00:40
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HoemberChess wrote on 06/08/10 at 13:04:10:
Is there any chesspublishing work covering the variation?

It's discussed in the notes to Game 10 of the June 2009 update.

If White wants a London System, then 2.Bf4 may be more accurate.
  
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anti d-Pawn 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 c5 3.c3 Nc6 4.Bf4 Qb6
06/08/10 at 13:04:10
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There is this tricky-move order by Black, to avoid certain d-pawn openings.
[Here the probability of getting the French Defence is relatively low, while a regular open Sicilian is even lower (why only 2.Nf3 c5 3.e4, which can be obstructed? why not an immediate 2.e4, then?), but one has to be prepared, just in case. 4.e4 d5 5.exd5 is an Alapin Sicilian. It's extremely useful to have at least the French main lines (normally after 2.d4) in your repertoire. 3.c4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 is, of course, the Symmetrical English, which is a very likely continuation.]

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
*
In the diagram, as we can conclude, White is trying to play the London System...

I have seen quite a few games from the diagram position, and I liked most of them.
And here comes the question.
How good is this anti-London with the Black pieces, actually?
Is there any Chesspublishing work covering the variation?
« Last Edit: 06/08/10 at 23:45:12 by HoemberChess »  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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