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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV? (Read 41968 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #11 - 06/17/10 at 16:26:48
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I also have a problem against the Grunfeld defense.  Basically, it just looks equal no matter what line I try!  I used to alternate between the Rb1 exchange and 4.Bg5, but I actually believe Black has excellent chances for equality in both.  The trouble is the Grunfeld is just a damn good opening; White's pawn center just doesn't seem to restrict Black's pieces and Black always seems fine (to me).

In the KID, white can actually work to turn his extra space into a real advantage because of the closed nature of many positions, but it's much harder in the Grunfeld.  First, in many lines a pair of pieces is traded off (favors the side with less space).  Second, capturing bxc3 for White doesn't actually help White's center in a strange way; it gives Black clear targets to attack on c3 and d4 as well as weak squares like c4 to take advantage of.   

I've been thinking of playing 3.f3!? because I play the Saemisch against the KID anyway, but I've always thought Black's play looks fine after 3...d5 and possibly even 3...e5!?  I certainly haven't had success in the blitz games I've tried.  I've never looked at the theory after 3...e5, but when I set the board up myself and asked how Black can take advantage of White's move order, 3...e5 was what I came up with and it looks fully playable to me (maybe I should check the real theory).

I'm now considering playing 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.Bd2 or 5.g3...I just don't know how to get positions I like against the Grunfeld.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #10 - 06/17/10 at 14:19:27
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Well, the Russian is one of the two most main lines against the Gruenfeld, so I'd be surprised if many Gruenfeld players are unaccustomed to it.

Incidentally, I associate 5. e3 followed by cd and Bc4 (unlike what Yusupov played) with Keres (I also think of a game Nunn-Seirawan, though that started as a Caro-Kann).  Could it be that that the "Keres structure" discussed in a video by Mikhalchishin is the one produced when Black meets that with ...Nxc3?
  
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #9 - 06/17/10 at 13:42:10
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trw wrote on 06/17/10 at 12:27:21:


One problem maybe that most of my repertoire is currently based on playing an early Nf3 but I can find ways around move order issues I think.


If you're playing Nf3 early, then the Russian System is quite a lively line. It also has a different pawn structure to the main exchange variations, so maybe Grunfeld players not as experienced with the type of play.
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 d5 4.Nc3 Bg7 5.Qb3
  
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zoo
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #8 - 06/17/10 at 12:53:47
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you shouldn't meet often the Gruenfeld if you play an early Nf3 ; if Black still wants a gruenfeld he has to play c6-d5 and many pieces stay on the board. With which move order do you reach the Gruenfeld after 1.d4 Nf6?
  
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trw
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #7 - 06/17/10 at 12:27:21
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excellent Mnb thank you.

I don't particularly care if I care theoretical edge or not. One problem maybe that most of my repertoire is currently based on playing an early Nf3 but I can find ways around move order issues I think.
  
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MNb
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #6 - 06/17/10 at 10:25:45
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parisestmagique wrote on 06/17/10 at 07:20:33:
Sakaev wrote a book some years ago in English "how to get an edge against the Grunfeld" . He recommands the main line exchange variation with Bc4 and Ne2. Very deep analysis but i am not shure it gives White an advantage !

The title is "An Expert's Guide to the 7.Bc4 Gruenfeld". Indeed it's about 7.Bc4 and 8.Ne2. I recommend it because it fulfills TRW's demands: complicated positions in which White tries to prove an advantage, putting up a good fight, only exchanging when it benefits White.

Amet probably means the game Jussupow-Carlsen, Politiken Cup 2003. I don't find 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.e3 very attractive.
  
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #5 - 06/17/10 at 09:22:09
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Ametanoitos wrote on 06/17/10 at 08:07:06:
Yusupov's proposal in Build up your Chess 3 is simple and good. This is what i play against the Grunf. See tha main game Carlsen-Yusupov, 2004


I cant find it in the megabase?! Can you give the notation please?
  
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #4 - 06/17/10 at 08:07:06
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Yusupov's proposal in Build up your Chess 3 is simple and good. This is what i play against the Grunf. See tha main game Carlsen-Yusupov, 2004
  
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parisestmagique
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #3 - 06/17/10 at 07:20:33
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Sakaev wrote a book some years ago in English "how to get an edge against the Grunfeld" . He recommands the main line exchange variation with Bc4 and Ne2. Very deep analysis but i am not shure it gives White an advantage !
  
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trw
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #2 - 06/17/10 at 04:17:43
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MNb wrote on 06/17/10 at 02:13:19:
Buy Sakaev.



Full name of the book is? Any particular reason you're recommending this one?
  
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MNb
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Re: Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
Reply #1 - 06/17/10 at 02:13:19
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Buy Sakaev.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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trw
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Favorite Grunfeld lines from White POV?
06/17/10 at 01:18:25
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I've been playing 1.d4 for 3 years now and finally gotten to expert ELO but i've never been happy with my Grunfeld lines. I've played the topical Rb1 exchange forever and studied theory... but I hate the positions I get. The thing I can't stand about the Grunfeld is how many pieces come off the board. I want complicated positions with chances for both sides that retain as many pieces as possible. I don't care if its extremely theoretical or not. I just want a good fight. I feel like the lines I've played have always lended themselves quickly to draws because of the amount of material that leaves the board so quickly. Suggestions appreciated.
  
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