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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound? (Read 29179 times)
Oblonskij
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #17 - 08/01/11 at 11:52:55
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IMO it would have been a better choice to play topical stuff against a GM who was in semi-retirement for years. Like they punished Kamsky in the opening after his comeback.
  
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Vass
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #16 - 07/27/11 at 08:26:50
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And don't forget that Seirawan was known as a good theoretician, too..  Wink
  
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STEFANOS
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #15 - 07/26/11 at 20:45:15
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I think Seirawan, so was one the few top GM on the eighties was playing crazy lines of the Modern Defense with a quick f5 ,so in my opinion prepared or not was quite familiar with all the plans and the structures of the line. Bad choice for Mamedayrov. Playing on this level without preparation is like going to the war without a gun !!!
  
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #14 - 07/26/11 at 09:54:28
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STEFANOS wrote on 07/25/11 at 17:00:47:
Possibly the Claredon Court is not unsound, but very difficult against a prepared GM. For club level is fine.


The question is how booked-up Seirawan was and if Mamedyarov chose to play it against Seirawan because he wasn't sure either?
  
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #13 - 07/25/11 at 18:06:48
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HoemberChess wrote on 10/26/10 at 17:02:10:
[a little bit offtopic]
I am upset because the other day I read a few lines in some recent(!?) opening book about what the origin of the naming Clarendon Court was (so I know it now), but I can't recall the book title. Please give me a hand. (I'd like to go on using that book, for some reason.)


A quick google search could have answered your question.

The story goes that Jon Levitt  named it after the set of flats he was living in when he invented the idea.

Levitt didn't actually invent the opening, but he refined it and became the first master to use it regularly.
  
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STEFANOS
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #12 - 07/25/11 at 17:00:47
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STEFANOS wrote on 10/27/10 at 16:34:18:
My personal feeling it is  by playing ala Staunton Gambit in the Dutch Defence creates lots of problems to black. 1.d4 c5,2.d5 f5,3.e4 fxe4,4.Nc3 Nf6, and now 5.g4 . Also I remembered Rowson in NIC to say his own experience with this variation and said it was unsound. Another bad thing it is the big hole on e6 after a posssible d6 to support c5, which gives nice chances for a fork by a knight.

Concerning the above topic , the line I mentioned was choosen by Seirawan to defeat Mamedyarov.
[Event "World Chess Team Championship"]
[Site "Ningbo CHN"]
[Date "2011.07.24"]
[EventDate "2011.07.17"]
[Round "7"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Y Seirawan"]
[Black "S Mamedyarov"]
[ECO "A43"]
[WhiteElo "2635"]
[BlackElo "2765"]
[PlyCount "58"]

1. d4 c5 2. d5 f5 3. e4 fxe4 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. g4 h6 6. h3 d6 7. Nge2 e5 8. Ng3
Be7 9. Bg2 Na6 10. Ncxe4 Bd7 11. O-O Nxe4 12. Bxe4 O-O 13. f4 exf4 14. Bxf4
Bg5 15. Qd2 c4 16. Bxg5 Qxg5 17. Qxg5 hxg5 18. Bf5 Bxf5 19. Nxf5 Nb4 20.
Ne3 Rxf1+ 21. Rxf1 c3 22. bxc3 Nxa2 23. c4 a5 24. Nf5 a4 25. Nxd6 a3 26.
Nxb7 Nb4 27. c3 Nd3 28. c5 Nf4 29. d6 1-0
Chessbase mentioned as grave error the move23... a5, and computer suggests Nc3 with equality. I like also 23...g6 to keep away the Knight from f5. In the next move the Azeri played the awful 24...a4 and lost , but either Rd8 or Nb4 offer more in this position. Possibly the Claredon Court is not unsound, but very difficult against a prepared GM. For club level is fine.
  
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #11 - 11/20/10 at 19:53:19
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Perhaps this is the rare variation that is actually better played with colours reversed ?  Undecided
  
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #10 - 10/27/10 at 16:34:18
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My personal feeling it is  by playing ala Staunton Gambit in the Dutch Defence creates lots of problems to black. 1.d4 c5,2.d5 f5,3.e4 fxe4,4.Nc3 Nf6, and now 5.g4 . Also I remembered Rowson in NIC to say his own experience with this variation and said it was unsound. Another bad thing it is the big hole on e6 after a posssible d6 to support c5, which gives nice chances for a fork by a knight.
  
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #9 - 10/26/10 at 17:02:10
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[a little bit offtopic]
I am upset because the other day I read a few lines in some recent(!?) opening book about what the origin of the naming Clarendon Court was (so I know it now), but I can't recall the book title. Please give me a hand. (I'd like to go on using that book, for some reason.)
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #8 - 07/03/10 at 23:46:02
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Interesting.

I've faced it against a 2000+ and against a 2200+. I won against the expert, lost against the master. I had never seen it before I faced the 2000 player and just winged it.  Against the master, I played a critical line and got the better game but lost in the complications. The master has played it against 2400+ opposition.

My own impression is that the Clarendon Court is far enough from "normal" chess that the better player will win.  It's a good way to level the playing field against a booked up player (me).  But it's probably not quite solid enough for professional or correspondence chess. I certainly wouldn't want to try to make a living defending such an opening.
  
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #7 - 06/26/10 at 21:45:07
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The chesscafe column is here:
http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss56.pdf

Note that it is missing a pair of moves.  It should be 17. Bxf3 Nxf3 18.Qxd8+ etc.

 

  
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #6 - 06/26/10 at 15:08:57
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Sources which may be of interest in this context:
Levitt: Foxy Openings, A complete defence to 1.d4 (GM-Video 1995)
Okhotnik/Appleberry: New Chaos Counter Attack, ChessMix.com
Ehlvest: The Dutch Benoni, in SOS 4 (2006)
Maurits Wind: Clarendon Court, in Kaissiber #25 (2006; 3 pp.). Based on the sources above, with many new ideas. The line which led to a decline of 2...f5's popularity is (also) discussed.
(Full disclosure: That's my magazine!)
Avrukh, 1.d4 vol. 2 (2010)
Bücker: ChessCafe.com. Checks Avrukh's recommendation and comes to the conclusion: about =.
(Another full disclosure: my column. But it's free, so any potential damage will only be virtual.)
  
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #5 - 06/26/10 at 14:39:08
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chessplayer132 wrote on 06/21/10 at 04:25:07:
I'm not particularly worried about White's tries for direct refutation (3.e4, 3.h4, 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3, etc.)


I might be wrong but didn't Levitt himself stop playing the Clarendon Court because of 3. e4?

In the Dutch ... d7-d5 is often a useful move to have in Staunton gambit lines but in the Clarendon Black doesn't have that option.
  

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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #4 - 06/26/10 at 06:59:34
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Valiantangel wrote on 06/21/10 at 09:40:10:
I think u r right to be worried about the g3 lines against the CC def.
1.d4c5 2.d5f5 3.c4g6 4.Nc3Nf6 5.Nf3d6 6.g3Bg7 7.Bg20-0 8.0-0Nbd7 9.Qc2Rb8 10.a4a6 11.h3b6   difficult to see how B gonna develope in a v cramped position.B cannot get rid of the backward e pawn without incurring deeper weakness.W has a small but nagging advantage.Esentially the potential for B ot err is greater than W.B i feel is only fighting for  draw.
My suggestion use CC depending on the opponent.Dont adopt it as a mainline defense against d4. Good luck Wink.


I bought the foxy tape mentioned and used it in speed games with good results.  I'm not so sure of it's soundness either but in the g3 line here maybe Black could play ...Na6, ...Nc7 and put the Bishop on d7 to support the ...b5 break.
  
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #3 - 06/21/10 at 10:08:53
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To answer your question: yes, it is probably unsound.
BUT: white must be able to prove and under 2000, it does not happen so often.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #2 - 06/21/10 at 09:40:10
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I think u r right to be worried about the g3 lines against the CC def.
1.d4c5 2.d5f5 3.c4g6 4.Nc3Nf6 5.Nf3d6 6.g3Bg7 7.Bg20-0 8.0-0Nbd7 9.Qc2Rb8 10.a4a6 11.h3b6   difficult to see how B gonna develope in a v cramped position.B cannot get rid of the backward e pawn without incurring deeper weakness.W has a small but nagging advantage.Esentially the potential for B ot err is greater than W.B i feel is only fighting for  draw.
My suggestion use CC depending on the opponent.Dont adopt it as a mainline defense against d4. Good luck Wink.
  
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Re: Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
Reply #1 - 06/21/10 at 07:38:43
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Strange, I had briefly considered this system a couple of years ago and as far as I remember I was particularly afraid of e4..
  

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Is the Clarendon Court (d4 c5 d5 f5!?) unsound?
06/21/10 at 04:25:07
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Does Black get enough play in the Clarendon Court defense?

I've heard there's a "Foxy Openings #1" video on the Clarendon Court by GM Jonathan Levitt.

I'm not particularly worried about White's tries for direct refutation (3.e4, 3.h4, 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3, etc.). White will probably have difficulty even reacting to d4 c5 d5 f5.

My biggest concern is the positional g3 lines (with or without c4), where Black fianchettos the f8 Bishop. But my concern is that Black doesn't get any play since there's no pawn break for Black.

I'm rated 1980 USCF and I'm currently playing 1.d4 e6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 exd5 4.cxd5 d6 as Black with relatively poor results (the problem being a lack of space and piece play), even though it looks like Black has a nice position.
  
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