Latest Updates:
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) GM Repertoire KID! (Read 71934 times)
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1777
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #97 - 04/15/15 at 17:39:49
Post Tools
The King's Indian, just like any other reasonable defense to anything, will not be refuted.

Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HagenWatch1
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 123
Joined: 04/08/15
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #96 - 04/15/15 at 17:30:30
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 04/15/15 at 17:08:43:
Does not - so far there's two volumes on the MDP and one on the Fianchetto. I'm not sure QC ever guaranteed Kotronias would cover everything, but the remaining Classical lines and the Samisch are the most obvious things to hit next.

Grin



So is it safe to say Vladimir Kramnik did not refute the King's Indian?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1777
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #95 - 04/15/15 at 17:08:43
Post Tools
Does not - so far there's two volumes on the MDP and one on the Fianchetto. I'm not sure QC ever guaranteed Kotronias would cover everything, but the remaining Classical lines and the Samisch are the most obvious things to hit next.

Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HagenWatch1
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 123
Joined: 04/08/15
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #94 - 04/15/15 at 17:05:17
Post Tools
Excuse me for being late the party on the GM series on the KID...but can anybody tell me if this 3 volume series covers the Samisch Variation? Or is that a volume to be named later?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
yolocounty
Junior Member
**
Offline


Yes, I push wood, why
do you ask?

Posts: 63
Location: Yolo County
Joined: 07/02/14
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #93 - 01/22/15 at 22:33:53
Post Tools
The online excerpts were so wonderful that it is hard to resist these books, but I haven't managed to successfully get through (much less) internalize Vigorito successfully yet, so I have to say I'm of the opinion that Kotronias will be over my 2100ish head.

The analysis of the Bd2 and Qc2 Classical in the excerpt on the Classical main line is amazing, and impressive.  I've had exactly one opportunity to play ...Nxe4 in the Mar Del Plata in a standard time control game (my opponent resigned on the spot so I didn't get to play the followup), so it's nice to see another line where that sort of thing is available.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
snakebite
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 82
Joined: 01/25/06
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #92 - 01/21/15 at 09:45:35
Post Tools
Looks like only a few weeks until a two volume series on the mainline classical is released. I'm secretly hoping for ...e5 versus the Saemisch - since the Panno and ...c5 have been covered in recent repertoire books - time will tell!!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MarinFan
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 425
Location: Leeds
Joined: 04/04/06
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #91 - 08/09/13 at 09:44:06
Post Tools
Most KingsIndian players are familar with the "Zurich 53" type positions. So will be a useful resource to check concrete analysis. Over the years the opinion developed that these lines were inferior, expressed in books like Wojo's weapons. Although found it strange that players like Kasparov stuck with the line, and didn't change to using the Nc6 line.

There is a similar situation in the saemisch line, in that the established best is now c5 approaches, but Kasparov kept playing the old school e5 lines. So maybe thats another myth that will be tackled in future books in series.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2014
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #90 - 07/31/13 at 13:04:50
Post Tools
Go and read the introduction to the online excerpt Smiley He's very honest about it. I quoted one bit a little above.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bogojump
Full Member
***
Offline


Chesspub

Posts: 121
Location: Europe
Joined: 03/26/08
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #89 - 07/31/13 at 12:09:03
Post Tools
Oh gosh! 720 pages! Very impressive but I think I am lazy enough to stick to the Kavalek system. I will probably buy the book anyhow...but I doubt I am capable of absorbing it.

How do you absorb such material ? Any advice ?
  

"You must lead your opponent into a deep, dark forest, where 2 + 2 = 5 and
  where the path back out is only broad enough for one of you." (((Mikhail Tal)))
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2014
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #88 - 07/28/13 at 08:28:52
Post Tools
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the lines themselves are bad, or indeed anything likely to be other than good.

As for the effort/editing, well..... You know all those stories about authors talking about writing a good short story being much harder than a medium length one? Very true for chess books nowadays too I suspect Smiley

Lets suppose that they set out to produce a complete survey of the Fianchetto KID in this sort of length of book. Quite a feasible effort I suspect. It would however take an awful lot more work than even this book. You'd be doing roughly the same amount of work as required for this book for every single chapter, but then having to throw much of it away, organise it etc etc.

Like I said, they clearly like doing books like this and you like it too so there you go Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BladezII
Senior Member
****
Offline


Member of chesspublishing
.com and STC Club

Posts: 402
Joined: 11/01/04
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #87 - 07/28/13 at 01:33:35
Post Tools
MartinC wrote on 07/27/13 at 20:23:43:
Ah, but the MGP books are very readable even if you don't actually try and understand the analysis at a serious level. Not sure how well that carries over to opening books.
(Although it often does to a fair extent anyway.).


I own several GM Prep opening books. 

I will be blunt; there is no poor quality of the content in any of the books I own, and from what I see, there is no sign at all that more content is less quality.

KID is no exception.  In fact, the more quantity, the more I can sense for KID, in GM Prep series, that much more effort has been exerted.   The editors in GM Prep are very good at editing and probing to check poor lines or suggestions never leave their printshop.

That has been MY experience with their books.
  

I am a participating member of chesspublishing.com since 1998.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2014
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #86 - 07/27/13 at 20:23:43
Post Tools
Ah, but the MGP books are very readable even if you don't actually try and understand the analysis at a serious level. Not sure how well that carries over to opening books.
(Although it often does to a fair extent anyway.).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #85 - 07/27/13 at 15:26:20
Post Tools
For sure a lot know and to analyse - but in the end, with all the books to come, it will be several thousand pages.

Nigel Short said at the London Chess Classics that a lot of people have Kasparov's books on the predeccesors but he thinks it's just to have them in the book shelf and be proud of them. He doubts that the average chess players really reads them because they have an intimitating amount of analyses.

Now Kontronias may follow his predecessor Garry...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 2237
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #84 - 07/27/13 at 11:39:36
Post Tools
gewgaw wrote on 07/27/13 at 09:39:57:
720 pages for the fianchetto line?? - This is a sign for quantity, but not quality.


And that comment is a sign of ignorance, but not of KID experience.
There is a lot of stuff to know.
I look forward to receiving the text.
Better to judge a book upon reading it, not before.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gewgaw
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 683
Location: europe
Joined: 09/09/04
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #83 - 07/27/13 at 09:39:57
Post Tools
720 pages for the fianchetto line?? - This is a sign for quantity, but not quality.
  

The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2014
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #82 - 07/27/13 at 09:11:41
Post Tools
Well probably only a few of the micro bits at the end of lines Smiley The very basic lines/ideas haven't gone anywhere for decades and aren't about to do start doing so now.

Although these very long QC books do seem to feature an awful lot of deep lines. On a personal level I'd much prefer if it was a complete survey of the Finachetto KID. It'd need stronger editing of course, but I'm sure you could do an effective one in this sort of size of book.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #81 - 07/27/13 at 06:35:28
Post Tools
tony37 wrote on 07/25/13 at 13:38:16:
well, the first volume by Kotronias is out now, it looks to me like the most detailed opening book ever, 720 pages on just a black repertoire against the fianchetto
is it overkill or a masterpiece?
http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/products/1/201/kotronias_on_the_king

720 pages - study 2 pages a day - takes 1 year - book is outdated then Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fllg
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 645
Joined: 05/30/09
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #80 - 07/25/13 at 15:21:58
Post Tools
Lines with c4 start on page 160. The main line after 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 g3 Bg7 4 Bg2 0-0 5 Nf3 d6 6 0-0 Nbd7 7 Nc3 e5 8 e4 c6 takes up roughly 300 pages. So it would have been easy to split this book into two volumes. Thanks to Quality Chess that they did not.

I only had a cursory glance at some of the chapters and my first impression is that it is very good. I hope that Kotronias finds the time and energy to continue his writings about the KID in the same style.

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2014
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #79 - 07/25/13 at 15:00:43
Post Tools
Apologies, yes I think I was confused by all those chapter titles which presume 1 d4 but not quite anything else Smiley
(And maybe the length!)

It does still take until page ~260 to hit the main line 'proper'.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4705
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #78 - 07/25/13 at 14:26:54
Post Tools
eh?  I don't see that it covers any g3-based flank openings (without d4).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2014
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #77 - 07/25/13 at 14:12:57
Post Tools
Its allowed to be both you know!

Mild mitigation due to it covering all of the g3 based flank openings too, but if you look at it in terms of utility purely as a repitoire book then it is quite clearly insanely oversized. Which he actually happily admits in the introduction Smiley (from the online extract)
"The supporting analysis presented in this book should not and indeed cannot be memorized in its entirety by anyone in the world."

As he then goes on to say, its meant to be interesting/instructive. I would imagine that if you're going to take the time to work through it all then it will be. Otherwise not. You do, of course, very rarely get anything terribly useful without working for it.

In general I'm a bit so/so about the QC drive towards very thick books. Some of it is down to their rather excellent lay out but they could likely trim them down quite a bit without harm. I'm sure they know what works for them.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tony37
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 616
Joined: 10/16/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #76 - 07/25/13 at 13:38:16
Post Tools
well, the first volume by Kotronias is out now, it looks to me like the most detailed opening book ever, 720 pages on just a black repertoire against the fianchetto
is it overkill or a masterpiece?
http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/products/1/201/kotronias_on_the_king
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fllg
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 645
Joined: 05/30/09
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #75 - 01/09/13 at 19:16:56
Post Tools
That´s what Jacob Aagaard wrote on the QC-Blog on December 26th 2012:

"We expect to have one volume of KID from Kotronias out in the late spring. He has changed his mind on structure and so on a few times, which is of course natural in a creative process. But clearly we spoke about the project too soon."
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #74 - 01/09/13 at 14:31:40
Post Tools
It's been almost exactly a year now. What's the story on these three volumes?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #73 - 01/25/12 at 11:45:33
Post Tools
fling wrote on 01/25/12 at 10:49:13:
Is the gambit ok for Black after all? I thought I have seen some recent games commented here at Chesspub which seem to indicate that White can actually snatch the pawn and hold on if he/she knows the theory well.


Those games were Vitiugov-Khismatullin and Atalik-Berg. I stopped looking at the Sämisch for White because the gambit looked like a good antidote for Black, but these games are indeed pretty tough for Black. As pointed out, Wang Yue-Radjabov is a game in which Black looks fine (with 10...b6 instead of 10 ...Nd7).

My question is, why has Black been trying the "old" main line with 10 ...Nd7 lately? Is there an improvement on Wang Yue-Radjabov for White? Or just that it is hard(er) to press for a win in that line?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fling
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1591
Joined: 01/21/11
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #72 - 01/25/12 at 10:49:13
Post Tools
Is the gambit ok for Black after all? I thought I have seen some recent games commented here at Chesspub which seem to indicate that White can actually snatch the pawn and hold on if he/she knows the theory well.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10592
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #71 - 01/25/12 at 10:29:20
Post Tools
You guys are obviously right about Kasparov, but it doesn't matter that much. The ...c5 gambit became popular in the 80's and it was then that I read about the desirability of Nh3, that it only can be played after ...Nbd7 and how that affects move order issues. I assume it was in the comments of a KID game as it was not a Modern Benoni and other Benoni's were considered inferior.
Hjartarson-Kasparov Amsterdam 1991 is one typical example: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 0-0 6.Bg5 a6 7.Qd2 Nbd7 8.Nge2 and only now Kasparov played c5 9.d5 b5.
Ward certainly was not the first to discuss this.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seth_Xoma
God Member
*****
Offline


FM with 2 IM Norms - (2381)

Posts: 558
Location: Lansing
Joined: 11/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #70 - 01/25/12 at 03:30:29
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 01/25/12 at 02:29:01:
Kasparov didn't play the ...c5 against the Sämisch much, except against 6.Bg5 and a few times from the Benoni move order. In particular I haven't found any games of his with the gambit 6.Be3 c5.


Yeah, I thought I remembered reading from Golubev's KID book that Kasparov never played the ...c5 gambit in his life. I think whoever made the claim was advocating the Panno.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
saubhikr
Senior Member
****
Offline


Chess is a cruel game
but I still love it

Posts: 332
Location: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Joined: 10/29/06
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #69 - 01/25/12 at 02:38:36
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 01/24/12 at 16:11:34:
Returning to the subject of the GM Rep book i want to say that i just noticed that Jacob has said in the QC blog that this project will be materialized in 2013.

Well, if it is in 2013 then it is too early for my excitement! However, this forum at least emphasizes that there will be audience (read buyers) for it when it comes and there is already a demand if Jacob wants to make it in 2012. Hope this message reaches out to him.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3183
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #68 - 01/25/12 at 02:29:01
Post Tools
Kasparov didn't play the ...c5 against the Sämisch much, except against 6.Bg5 and a few times from the Benoni move order. In particular I haven't found any games of his with the gambit 6.Be3 c5.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10592
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #67 - 01/25/12 at 00:48:13
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 01/24/12 at 23:40:15:
As an aside, I think I saw some source (Ward's book?) argue that lines with ...Nbd7 like the Byrne system make more sense against 6.Nge2, since White would often have liked to answer ...Nbd7 with Nh3.

I think I read that argument somewhere in the 80's, when Kasparov made ...c5 against the Sämisch popular. But it could be that I read it in a comment on some Benoni.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3183
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #66 - 01/24/12 at 23:40:15
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 01/24/12 at 20:57:14:
Houdini loves the sac ...c5 line for Black! "It" even proposes as satisactory moves that in the past were considered better for White. And Black avoids some drawing lines! I don't like ...e5 because it is not playable after 6.Nge2 or 6.Bg5, but the ...c5 lines produce similar positions, so it is easy to play those with similar ideas.


I wouldn't hesitate to play ...c5 against 6.Bg5 and 6.Nge2, but something else against 6.Be3 if I felt that combination gave me the most winning chances and/or interesting games. But which line that would be exactly against 6.Be3 is more of a problem.

As an aside, I think I saw some source (Ward's book?) argue that lines with ...Nbd7 like the Byrne system make more sense against 6.Nge2, since White would often have liked to answer ...Nbd7 with Nh3.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seth_Xoma
God Member
*****
Offline


FM with 2 IM Norms - (2381)

Posts: 558
Location: Lansing
Joined: 11/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #65 - 01/24/12 at 21:21:30
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 01/24/12 at 20:57:14:
Houdini loves the sac ...c5 line for Black! "It" even proposes as satisactory moves that in the past were considered better for White. And Black avoids some drawing lines! I don't like ...e5 because it is not playable after 6.Nge2 or 6.Bg5, but the ...c5 lines produce similar positions, so it is easy to play those with similar ideas.


I have a hard time playing the sac against lower-rated players who grab the pawn. The pressure is then placed on Black to justify the sacrifice and I am just not good at doing it. I can't use Houdini during a game, unfortunately.  Sad

I have no doubt the ...c5 sac is objectively good, maybe best, but it doesn't fit me or my purposes well.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #64 - 01/24/12 at 21:10:06
Post Tools
I played the King's Indian for almost my entire tournament career before switching to the Grünfeld, and I felt the King's Indian was all or nothing type of opening. In many main lines, if the kingside counterplay fails, then the position ends up as += or a winning endgame for White. Also, when you win especially against the main lines you win in dramatically convincing fashion with a kingside attack. If you lose, you lose in a horrible fashion, usually in a positionally worse position that can be difficult to watch. Maybe I must have misplayed the King's Indian too much, but I would buy Κοτρωνιασ's books and attempt to play it again. The last few tournaments when I played King's Indian, I beat a 2450 and lost to a 2000. The former was due to a successful kingside attack, and the latter due to an unsuccessful kingside attack. King's Indian seems to be a very stressful opening, but I suppose an enjoyable one as well.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #63 - 01/24/12 at 20:57:14
Post Tools
Houdini loves the sac ...c5 line for Black! "It" even proposes as satisactory moves that in the past were considered better for White. And Black avoids some drawing lines! I don't like ...e5 because it is not playable after 6.Nge2 or 6.Bg5, but the ...c5 lines produce similar positions, so it is easy to play those with similar ideas.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seth_Xoma
God Member
*****
Offline


FM with 2 IM Norms - (2381)

Posts: 558
Location: Lansing
Joined: 11/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #62 - 01/24/12 at 20:35:41
Post Tools
Is it too much to hope for 6...e5 against the Saemisch?

I've never been totally satisfied with either the ...c5 gambit lines or the Panno against 5.f3.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #61 - 01/24/12 at 16:11:34
Post Tools
Returning to the subject of the GM Rep book i want to say that i just noticed that Jacob has said in the QC blog that this project will be materialized in 2013. Also, i'd like to add that i had the impression that Jacob said that it is going to be 3 volumes but he was talking about Polgar's books (on another subject) and not Kotronias', so again it is not that i know something, i am just guessing. And to return to a discussion a few posts earlier i'd much rather have 3 or 4 volumes on the KID to work on. The thing with the KID is that it is a weapon for a life time. You can add around it things like the Benko, or even the Grunfeld but if you have a strong KID repertoire then you are a fearsome opponent. And what i like about Kotronias' aproach to chess (you can learn more about that from his recent "GM Battle manual book") is his stick to challenging chess, main lines always and deep analysis.

Let's hope that he'll solve all problems that Black is facing right now in the 9.Ne1 line (both on the Nd3+Bd2 line and in the Be3+Rc1 system). I like much more talking about concrete lines like them, than discussing about 960 chess! Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #60 - 01/24/12 at 09:40:27
Post Tools
They have people who attempt to memorise π to more than 100 digits or so, so I am sure there are people who would not mind attempting to memorise opening theory for all 960 Fischer Random positions so they can be prepared at will...
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 2014
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #59 - 01/24/12 at 09:36:03
Post Tools
Surely the memory cost of that would be totally overwhelming?

Not that I'm at all sure that losing opening theory would actually be a good thing. Although I do also like all sorts of chess variants too Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #58 - 01/24/12 at 06:07:55
Post Tools
But in Fischer Random, there are a finite (960) number of positions. Perhaps someday there will be people who prepare opening theory for each 960 starting positions. Then they will arrive at the board knowing what to play against all 960, whichever position that arises at random. Of course it could be possible, but I wonder who would actually do that.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3183
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #57 - 01/24/12 at 05:13:52
Post Tools
People are attracted to different parts of the game; it's always been like that. I find the middle parts (middlegame and strategic endgames) more fascinating because calculation and pattern recognition are more interesting, "mysterious" processes in the mind than the raw memorization that takes place in many openings and technical endgames. Cramming is hard and boring work; if I'm going to do that I'd rather learn something about the real world. There are countless fascinating subjects out there, enough for many lifetimes!

At least it will take much longer for Fischer Random to develop anywhere near the same level of opening theory as chess. And specific pre-game preparation would all but vanish if you don't know before the game starts which starting position will be played.

I thought draughts was solved by computers decades ago, but maybe it depends on the type/board size?
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #56 - 01/24/12 at 04:55:03
Post Tools
What if someone designs a computer for all 960 positions in Fischer Random then? Opening preparation for all 960 positions past move 10. There already is opening theory for bughouse and crazyhouse; every game will have some sort of theory.

And I enjoy opening preparation with opening books. It is like revising and then attending an examination in university and incorporating one's own understand with that of an expert on a particular subject to demonstrate one's understanding as a combination of the two, based on lectures, textbook, homework problems etc. just like opening books in chess. If I wanted to play a game where no preparation is needed, I could play draughts (although draughts probably already has opening theory of its own as well).
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3183
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #55 - 01/24/12 at 04:36:36
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 01/23/12 at 10:25:44:
Stigma wrote on 01/23/12 at 01:59:09:
Do people really make a point of buying and reading ALL these books?

What's wrong with that? Studying is actually enjoyable, you know.
And who says that studying all the stuff actually means slavishly following all recommendations?

Stigma wrote on 01/23/12 at 02:13:59:
Don't you miss the excitement of searching for and putting together your very own repertoire from databases, favorite players, various opening books, yearbooks, ChessPublishing, this forum, working out lines with a board and/or engines, etc.?

And why should working your way through all the GM Repertoire stuff prevent you from doing that as well?

To me the answer to these are obvious: I have only one lifetime and there's more to life than chess.

I can only guess that some people are able to go through these gigantic opening books, remember most of what they've read AND form an independent opinion of every line 10 times faster than I would have been able to.

And again, even if I could absorb all of this material  in a reasonable time, I'm not sure I'd want to. Anything that makes chess more like robotically repeating someone else's work is a step in the wrong direction. The point of the game for me is the fight and the creative problem solving at the board (and secondarily in training).

Maybe I should just take up a game that is a bit farther from being taken over by machines... Chess960, anyone?!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tp2205
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 195
Joined: 09/11/11
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #54 - 01/24/12 at 03:30:19
Post Tools
saubhikr wrote on 01/24/12 at 02:41:46:
I strongly feel 3 volume will give a great opportunity to the author to go to the depth in complex positions without being worried by page limits. Bologan's book hardly had much explanation - mostly variations. Vigorito's 2 volume was also not too far behind. If you compare this with the depth of explanation in Sadler's QGD book, you will realize how much could have been said. KID is a very rich opening and a lot can be explained there and this will mostly benefit the lower rated players.

I vote for 3 volume book!


You should keep in mind that if at the outset 3 volumes are planned in the end we get more likely 6-9 volumes (or to set a new record 15 volumes).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
saubhikr
Senior Member
****
Offline


Chess is a cruel game
but I still love it

Posts: 332
Location: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Joined: 10/29/06
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #53 - 01/24/12 at 02:41:46
Post Tools
I strongly feel 3 volume will give a great opportunity to the author to go to the depth in complex positions without being worried by page limits. Bologan's book hardly had much explanation - mostly variations. Vigorito's 2 volume was also not too far behind. If you compare this with the depth of explanation in Sadler's QGD book, you will realize how much could have been said. KID is a very rich opening and a lot can be explained there and this will mostly benefit the lower rated players.

I vote for 3 volume book!
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #52 - 01/24/12 at 01:26:44
Post Tools
Sometimes repertoire books offer two or three options against certain lines. For example, Ftacnik offers two lines against 6. Bg5, two lines against 6. Be3, and two lines against 2. c3 in Grandmaster Repertoire 6. So it is not as if the reader is following a strict one-response against every sideline type of repertoire.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10592
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #51 - 01/23/12 at 10:25:44
Post Tools
Ender wrote on 01/22/12 at 21:56:28:
Which amateur needs 3 vols?

All corr. players are amateurs.

Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 01/22/12 at 22:38:32:
There are already so many books for under 2000 or 2200 level,

There are even nuts like me, far beneath 2200 level, who love extensive research on their favourite openings. When I can finish an opening book within a couple of hours, I feel a bit disappointed. That's almost always the case with repertoire books.

Stigma wrote on 01/23/12 at 01:59:09:
Do people really make a point of buying and reading ALL these books?

What's wrong with that? Studying is actually enjoyable, you know.
And who says that studying all the stuff actually means slavishly following all recommendations?

Stigma wrote on 01/23/12 at 02:13:59:
Don't you miss the excitement of searching for and putting together your very own repertoire from databases, favorite players, various opening books, yearbooks, ChessPublishing, this forum, working out lines with a board and/or engines, etc.?

And why should working your way through all the GM Repertoire stuff prevent you from doing that as well?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #50 - 01/23/12 at 08:51:12
Post Tools
I have no idea, but i always was on the opinion that you cannot propose a fianchetto system without at least explain how are you going to deal with the move order issues caused by 1.c4 and 1.Nf3. Bologan obviously was on the same opinion but Vigorito wasn't. Bit to be fair, everyman already had a book by Dembo dealing with these things. I know that there is going to be a book by Avrukh dealing with these things also, so i don't really know if Kotronias is going to offer complete analysis on 1.c4/1.Nf3, a general advice what to do to avoid move order issues with his fianchetto repertoire, or leave it entirely to Avrukh.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gramsci
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 210
Joined: 11/11/09
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #49 - 01/23/12 at 08:22:52
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 01/21/12 at 20:05:20:
It is going to be at least 3 volumes! The quality of the work is simply beyong anything you could imagine! Sorry for my enthousiasm but this work really deserves the wait.

Will the English KID be included in these 3 books? If so I'll buy all of them.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #48 - 01/23/12 at 02:23:23
Post Tools
I do like to mix my repertoire with Grandmaster Repertoire and other books such as Chess Stars and New In Chess, but many choices in those books I already like, so most of the time no need for a large amount of independent research. I still consult databases and look at games of certain players for openings, but if choices in those books are already fairly good, I just learn them instead. For example, almost all of Avrukh's Grünfeld repertoire I play, except I respond to the Fianchetto with ...d5 without ...c6, and use other sources for this aspect.

Nothing wrong with Glasgow, nice city, but when I last went there it was -5 C.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #47 - 01/23/12 at 02:21:34
Post Tools
Quote:
Since I started moving towards more main lines, my attitude towards repertoire books has always been to choose some lines from each, but never copy or even work through an entire repertoire.


This is what i do for me, but it depends on each person's character! For example, during 2010 i combined the reperoire choices of Bologan and Schandorff on the Caro Kann (and a bit of "Dangerous Weapons") because in some variation i liked the given solution by the one and in another variation from the other author. For example, against the 5.Nc5 line i consider the Bologan solution more simple and strong. And i have to add that in some lines i have some solutions that cannot be found in any source! I consider this to be a healthy aproach that has to do with the playing style and the overall enjoyment of research in new fields of opening/middlegame chess theory.

But, on the other hand i cannot find a problem of working on the whole repertoire and playing it. That kind of repertoire should evolve through personal experience over the time and is not going to be static. It is a fine starting point.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3183
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #46 - 01/23/12 at 02:13:59
Post Tools
No offense intended toward Glasgow, of course.

It's not like following the entire GM repertoire and playing crappy sidelines are the only two options! Don't you miss the excitement of searching for and putting together your very own repertoire from databases, favorite players, various opening books, yearbooks, ChessPublishing, this forum, working out lines with a board and/or engines, etc.? For me that's one of the most engrossing aspects of the game. I also believe in both the educational value and practical surprise value of doing one's own independent opening work.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #45 - 01/23/12 at 02:06:19
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 01/23/12 at 01:59:09:
Do people really make a point of buying and reading ALL these books?

I find that surprising and a bit depressing actually. Why should some guys up in Glasgow get to decide someone's entire repertoire with White and Black? What happened to chess players as individualistic rebels and freethinkers?!

Since I started moving towards more main lines, my attitude towards repertoire books has always been to choose some lines from each, but never copy or even work through an entire repertoire. For one thing it's all too easy to get pigeonholed as "that guy who usually plays the Schandorff repertoire, Watson repertoire, Marin repertoire..." thus making preparation all too easy for the most industrious opponents.

The day you have to follow the GM repertoire or the "Anand" repertoire, the "Kramnik" repertoire or whatever to be a serious, improving player, that's the day I quit the game.


Well, what other type of repertoire would I choose? I certainly would not want to forgo using Grandmaster Repertoire books for my repertoire and try to become an IM by playing the Wing Gambit and Owen's Defence, as well as anything that is not a main line. That leaves only main lines, and publishers such as Quality Chess and Chess Stars amongst others seem good for that. Instead of using one author's repertoire, one can mix several authors' repertoires and make a combination of them all.

And I think Quality Chess being located in Glasgow is another good thing. It is only a few hours from Manchester by any type of transportation. Anyone in the UK or some parts of Europe who is eager to read Grandmaster Repertoire books can get them the next day...
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3183
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #44 - 01/23/12 at 01:59:09
Post Tools
Do people really make a point of buying and reading ALL these books?

I find that surprising and a bit depressing actually. Why should some guys up in Glasgow get to decide someone's entire repertoire with White and Black? What happened to chess players as individualistic rebels and freethinkers?!

Since I started moving towards more main lines, my attitude towards repertoire books has always been to choose some lines from each, but never copy or even work through an entire repertoire. For one thing it's all too easy to get pigeonholed as "that guy who usually plays the Schandorff repertoire, Watson repertoire, Marin repertoire..." thus making preparation all too easy for the most industrious opponents.

The day you have to follow the GM repertoire or the "Anand" repertoire, the "Kramnik" repertoire or whatever to be a serious, improving player, that's the day I quit the game.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #43 - 01/23/12 at 01:06:35
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 01/22/12 at 23:31:41:
Quote:
I own the first nine GM Repertoire books, have studied them in detail and noticed a considerable improvement in my chess over this time.


I am sure this trend will continue f you study the 10nth volume of the series! Smiley


I will buy GM Repertoire 10 very soon, I promise.  Wink
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #42 - 01/23/12 at 00:09:16
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 01/22/12 at 23:31:41:
Quote:
I own the first nine GM Repertoire books, have studied them in detail and noticed a considerable improvement in my chess over this time.


I am sure this trend will continue f you study the 10nth volume of the series! Smiley


Since I own all ten, that is true.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #41 - 01/22/12 at 23:31:41
Post Tools
Quote:
I own the first nine GM Repertoire books, have studied them in detail and noticed a considerable improvement in my chess over this time.


I am sure this trend will continue f you study the 10nth volume of the series! Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #40 - 01/22/12 at 23:09:33
Post Tools
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 01/22/12 at 22:38:32:
No one under 2200 probably needs three volumes, but then who will write for the titled players and those who aspire to become titled players? I am sure IMs read Grandmaster Repertoire books if I am reading them and I am around 2250 FIDE. I have read every Grandmaster Repertoire book (and in the process of reading the Tarrasch GM10), and the format is tree with variations. Of course it is as dense, detailed, and heavy as an engineering textbook, but if one wants to surpass 2400 or 2500 (or 2600?), then this is necessary. I would rather read 3000 pages of Grandmaster Repertoire volumes on one opening than one book that does not provide as much information. When I read Avrukh's two volume work on 1. d4, it took me over half a year to finish reading, but it was worth it as it allowed me to switch completely from being fairly unsuccessful with 1. e4 to 1. d4. Sometimes it would take me all day to finish four pages, but so do reading my university textbooks. To me that means the book is good, not bad.

There are already so many books for under 2000 or 2200 level, so those who need maximum amount of information and theory will also need required books as well. I formed about 90% of my entire repertoire on the Grandmaster Repertoire books, never memorising every single line but only the bolded moves, as with an engineering or mathematics textbook, you only need to memorise the main equations in a section and understand the extra text. The footnotes and text are to help understand the position in greater detail. A 2500 player cannot memorise a few lines and hope to succeed against quality opposition, just as how a PhD in physics cannot earn that qualification by just memorising the laws of motion.


Well stated. I own the first nine GM Repertoire books, have studied them in detail and noticed a considerable improvement in my chess over this time.

@Ender

Don't panic, I am publishing 'International Master Repertoire: The King's Indian' and 'FIDE Master Repertoire: The King's Indian' in December 2013. IM Repertoire will be about 600 pages, and FM Repertoire will be 300 pages.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #39 - 01/22/12 at 22:38:32
Post Tools
No one under 2200 probably needs three volumes, but then who will write for the titled players and those who aspire to become titled players? I am sure IMs read Grandmaster Repertoire books if I am reading them and I am around 2250 FIDE. I have read every Grandmaster Repertoire book (and in the process of reading the Tarrasch GM10), and the format is tree with variations. Of course it is as dense, detailed, and heavy as an engineering textbook, but if one wants to surpass 2400 or 2500 (or 2600?), then this is necessary. I would rather read 3000 pages of Grandmaster Repertoire volumes on one opening than one book that does not provide as much information. When I read Avrukh's two volume work on 1. d4, it took me over half a year to finish reading, but it was worth it as it allowed me to switch completely from being fairly unsuccessful with 1. e4 to 1. d4. Sometimes it would take me all day to finish four pages, but so do reading my university textbooks. To me that means the book is good, not bad.

There are already so many books for under 2000 or 2200 level, so those who need maximum amount of information and theory will also need required books as well. I formed about 90% of my entire repertoire on the Grandmaster Repertoire books, never memorising every single line but only the bolded moves, as with an engineering or mathematics textbook, you only need to memorise the main equations in a section and understand the extra text. The footnotes and text are to help understand the position in greater detail. A 2500 player cannot memorise a few lines and hope to succeed against quality opposition, just as how a PhD in physics cannot earn that qualification by just memorising the laws of motion.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #38 - 01/22/12 at 22:10:02
Post Tools
GM Rep books are "scientific proofs" that prove the GM point about the opening. You don't need to rememeber all that, believe me none does. But if you want to work, or come back after your game and check what you should have played these books re really great. You can also check on the databases ofcourse but this doesn't tell you a lot. It is like having a specialized GM in the current opening offering advice and guidance through the jungle. And in openings like the KID where computes, bases and general advice doesn't help you cannot have something better.

Chess is fun, i know, but having such a quality book is blessing in my opinion.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ender
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 408
Joined: 05/22/06
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #37 - 01/22/12 at 21:56:28
Post Tools
This repertoire is for grandmasters, because I dont know even one international master who needs couple houndrets pages of theory. They will be outdated in few months anyway, so what for?
Isn't better to do normal 1 book repertoire for anyone? Which amateur needs 3 vols?
  

2200. Amateur!
Back to top
ICQ  
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #36 - 01/22/12 at 21:31:12
Post Tools
Who knows? Maybe one volume will be only the Clascical bit it is too early to talk about page counting and stuff. And remember, this is an "active" repertoire, meaning that Kotronias is playing now these lines and we expect games from him with this repertoire soon. So, i dont really know when the QC team will decide to take his last version of analysis and make it a book (or 3 books). It is going to be fantastic if it happens in the end, so every wait is worth it. For now i think that Vigorito's 2 volumes are enough study material for KID practisioners.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #35 - 01/22/12 at 20:00:37
Post Tools
So one volume is at least 600 pages? That seems like this will be the second largest GM Repertoire series, after Aagaard's 1. e4 repertoires.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #34 - 01/22/12 at 19:22:11
Post Tools
He said to us in Porto Carras that only his "Classical Variation" chapter was over 600 pages! Imagine how Jacob felt! Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #33 - 01/22/12 at 07:44:33
Post Tools
Three volumes is a lot, I suppose was split from two to three as Avrukh's Grünfeld books were split from one to two. I am sure just as how Avrukh plays the Grünfeld regularly, then Κοτρωνιάς (somehow my installed Greek keyboard did not type it out correctly) books will be great as well.
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #32 - 01/22/12 at 05:24:10
Post Tools
I am not sure when these books will come out and if they'll be out at the same time. I guess that they we'll out either at the roughly the same time, or very close one with another. Better ask Jacob about that. And yes Kotronias (or "Κοτρωνιάς" in Greek) will be the author.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Gilchrist is a legend
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1039
Location: Manchester, UK
Joined: 03/02/10
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #31 - 01/22/12 at 01:19:35
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 01/21/12 at 20:05:20:
It is going to be at least 3 volumes! The quality of the work is simply beyong anything you could imagine! Sorry for my enthousiasm but this work really deserves the wait.


Is Κοτρονιασ the author of these King's Indian volumes by Quality Chess?
  

Creo lo que creo no importa lo que creen los demás.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LostTactic
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 336
Joined: 02/19/11
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #30 - 01/21/12 at 22:16:51
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 01/21/12 at 20:05:20:
It is going to be at least 3 volumes! The quality of the work is simply beyong anything you could imagine! Sorry for my enthousiasm but this work really deserves the wait.


Do you know roughly when they will come out? And if all 3 will come out at the same time? thanks.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #29 - 01/21/12 at 20:05:20
Post Tools
It is going to be at least 3 volumes! The quality of the work is simply beyong anything you could imagine! Sorry for my enthousiasm but this work really deserves the wait.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
saubhikr
Senior Member
****
Offline


Chess is a cruel game
but I still love it

Posts: 332
Location: Milwaukee, WI, USA
Joined: 10/29/06
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #28 - 01/01/12 at 17:33:38
Post Tools
What is the last word on this? Are these KID books coming up from Quality Chess?
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
dfan
God Member
*****
Offline


"When you see a bad move,
look for a better one"

Posts: 741
Location: Boston
Joined: 10/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #27 - 03/03/11 at 16:03:06
Post Tools
Smyslov_Fan wrote on 03/03/11 at 13:52:56:
I don't think I've ever seen a two-volume repertoire book devoted to a single opening like the KID from the Black side before.

Now you will see two! Vigorito's KID repertoire is 2 volumes too.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #26 - 03/03/11 at 13:52:56
Post Tools
Two volumes seems like quite a bit of material for a repertoire book for Black against the KID.

I have Nunn's two volumes on the Classical KID, but that wasn't a repertoire book.

I don't think I've ever seen a two-volume repertoire book devoted to a single opening like the KID from the Black side before.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #25 - 03/03/11 at 13:13:45
Post Tools
No, Kotronias is going to write 2 volumes in the GM Rep series on the KID
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gramsci
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 210
Joined: 11/11/09
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #24 - 03/03/11 at 09:37:07
Post Tools
Ametanoitos wrote on 09/27/10 at 17:10:48:
I dont' really think that Kotronias is going to cover the Nbd7 lines because he has much more to say in the Nc6 lines and also because the Nbd7 lines are indeed inferior! White has a great possition if he knows one or two things the great masters of the past knew and tha't why the Nbd7 lines were dismissed. Now that the secrets of the past are well forgotten these lines have an undeservly come back!

I think that you haven't realised yet how big news this book brings. Many of you don't know Kotronias or you have simply hear him as an "average" 2600 player. According to Short (and everyone else that knows who Kotronias is) he is much much better analyst than a player. His ideas, level of preparation and chess understanding are legendary in Greece. No one would ever expect to see Kotronias' "secret files" especialy on the KID! An opening he plays all of his life and have thought to many GM's.

The Grandmaster Battle Manual by Vassilios Kotronias (Quality Chess): is this the book you are talking about?
Anyone knows when GM Repertoire KID Vol. II will be released?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jay
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 212
Location: USA
Joined: 04/18/09
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #23 - 01/27/11 at 14:25:32
Post Tools
Chazy wrote on 01/27/11 at 11:15:11:
TN wrote on 01/26/11 at 23:02:14:
Jay wrote on 01/26/11 at 19:59:42:
I am conflicted on the whole QualityChess books.  Don't get me wrong; they are fantastic, but I have to be honest:  They would be better if I could get them in CBV.  It is just so much easier to play through on a computer than book/actual chess set.  I emailed Aagaard on this, and they have no intention of producing anything chessbase compatible unless chessbase does something about its lack of security.  It is simply too easy to share on various peer to peer networks.  I would love to trade my GM Repertoire I and II for an ebook version, but it will not happen at least in the foreseable future.  Even so I will probably buy both paperbacks, but I would prefer them in ebook.


My solution to this problem was simple: I entered all the lines into my computer. I didn't bother including the explanatory prose, and sometimes didn't include any annotation symbols. Yes, it takes time, but you can't expect to master a GM Repertoire in five hours.

Alternatively you can only enter the bolded moves, since the Introduction states that GMs tend to only memorise the bolded moves and use the variations as explanations.


Or you can just copy the whole book yourself and make an e-book version of it, like I did! Cheesy


How long did it take you?  I have started that before, but I never get more than a chapter in.  I think entering only the bold with comments to page numbers might work for me because the optimal solution ( sharing the computer files so that we do not all have to repeat the same activities) is illegal.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chazy
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Nothing is what it seems!

Posts: 22
Location: Germany
Joined: 06/08/10
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #22 - 01/27/11 at 11:15:11
Post Tools
TN wrote on 01/26/11 at 23:02:14:
Jay wrote on 01/26/11 at 19:59:42:
I am conflicted on the whole QualityChess books.  Don't get me wrong; they are fantastic, but I have to be honest:  They would be better if I could get them in CBV.  It is just so much easier to play through on a computer than book/actual chess set.  I emailed Aagaard on this, and they have no intention of producing anything chessbase compatible unless chessbase does something about its lack of security.  It is simply too easy to share on various peer to peer networks.  I would love to trade my GM Repertoire I and II for an ebook version, but it will not happen at least in the foreseable future.  Even so I will probably buy both paperbacks, but I would prefer them in ebook.


My solution to this problem was simple: I entered all the lines into my computer. I didn't bother including the explanatory prose, and sometimes didn't include any annotation symbols. Yes, it takes time, but you can't expect to master a GM Repertoire in five hours.

Alternatively you can only enter the bolded moves, since the Introduction states that GMs tend to only memorise the bolded moves and use the variations as explanations.


Or you can just copy the whole book yourself and make an e-book version of it, like I did! Cheesy
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #21 - 01/26/11 at 23:02:14
Post Tools
Jay wrote on 01/26/11 at 19:59:42:
I am conflicted on the whole QualityChess books.  Don't get me wrong; they are fantastic, but I have to be honest:  They would be better if I could get them in CBV.  It is just so much easier to play through on a computer than book/actual chess set.  I emailed Aagaard on this, and they have no intention of producing anything chessbase compatible unless chessbase does something about its lack of security.  It is simply too easy to share on various peer to peer networks.  I would love to trade my GM Repertoire I and II for an ebook version, but it will not happen at least in the foreseable future.  Even so I will probably buy both paperbacks, but I would prefer them in ebook.


My solution to this problem was simple: I entered all the lines into my computer. I didn't bother including the explanatory prose, and sometimes didn't include any annotation symbols. Yes, it takes time, but you can't expect to master a GM Repertoire in five hours.

Alternatively you can only enter the bolded moves, since the Introduction states that GMs tend to only memorise the bolded moves and use the variations as explanations.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jay
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 212
Location: USA
Joined: 04/18/09
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #20 - 01/26/11 at 19:59:42
Post Tools
I am conflicted on the whole QualityChess books.  Don't get me wrong; they are fantastic, but I have to be honest:  They would be better if I could get them in CBV.  It is just so much easier to play through on a computer than book/actual chess set.  I emailed Aagaard on this, and they have no intention of producing anything chessbase compatible unless chessbase does something about its lack of security.  It is simply too easy to share on various peer to peer networks.  I would love to trade my GM Repertoire I and II for an ebook version, but it will not happen at least in the foreseable future.  Even so I will probably buy both paperbacks, but I would prefer them in ebook.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: East of the river Svartĺn
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #19 - 10/06/10 at 11:42:27
Post Tools
XChess1971 wrote on 10/06/10 at 11:31:12:
Alias wrote on 09/28/10 at 10:59:35:
I think there were a few chapters on Nbd7 in the KID DW book.


What is KID DW book?


KID = King's indian defence
DW = dangerous weapons, a series of books by Everyman

http://www.everymanchess.com/chess/books/Dangerous_Weapons%3A_The_King%27s_India...
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
XChess1971
Full Member
***
Offline


Born with a Dragon Book!

Posts: 193
Location: USA
Joined: 09/07/04
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #18 - 10/06/10 at 11:31:12
Post Tools
Alias wrote on 09/28/10 at 10:59:35:
I think there were a few chapters on Nbd7 in the KID DW book.


What is KID DW book?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: East of the river Svartĺn
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #17 - 09/28/10 at 10:59:35
Post Tools
I think there were a few chapters on Nbd7 in the KID DW book.
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
spagh3tti
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 50
Joined: 09/27/10
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #16 - 09/28/10 at 01:35:16
Post Tools
Well, I'm just a 2100 player so perhaps it's not my place to judge wether the Nbd7 lines are objectively inferior or not.
Still, it's interesting to notice that, if I'm not miscounting, out of 58 times where he's faced 5. Nf3 0-0 6. Be2 e5 7. 0-0 between 1986 and 2010 the same Kotronias has played the Nbd7 systems 29 times. A round 50% thoroughout his carreer.
If, as you say, his secret files are a Most Wanted DOA, they might be just as interesting on Nbd7 lines as they are on Nc6 lines.
Am I pushing a lost cause here?! Undecided
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #15 - 09/27/10 at 17:10:48
Post Tools
I dont' really think that Kotronias is going to cover the Nbd7 lines because he has much more to say in the Nc6 lines and also because the Nbd7 lines are indeed inferior! White has a great possition if he knows one or two things the great masters of the past knew and tha't why the Nbd7 lines were dismissed. Now that the secrets of the past are well forgotten these lines have an undeservly come back!

I think that you haven't realised yet how big news this book brings. Many of you don't know Kotronias or you have simply hear him as an "average" 2600 player. According to Short (and everyone else that knows who Kotronias is) he is much much better analyst than a player. His ideas, level of preparation and chess understanding are legendary in Greece. No one would ever expect to see Kotronias' "secret files" especialy on the KID! An opening he plays all of his life and have thought to many GM's.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
spagh3tti
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 50
Joined: 09/27/10
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #14 - 09/27/10 at 01:32:55
Post Tools
I really hope he's gonna cover the ...Nbd7 lines against the Classical, and that's for three reasons: 1) They are seeing a new dawn thanx to the Nh5/Bf8 regrouping, it would b a shame to miss out on that especially since 2) both Bologan and Vigorito already cover the ...Nc6 lines, we dont need yet another book on that. And 3) most importantly, at least to me, that's what I've always wanted to play!
I confess I quit playing the kid precisely because I hated the ...Nc6 lines and at the time the ...Nbd7 lines were regarded as simply inferior. I would love so much to b able to go back to my first and true love  Roll Eyes
Well, since I'm at it, I'd also like to have the classical ..e5/...c6 against the saemish covered. That's what I used to play and it would also make a nice complement since Bologan covers the gambit and Vigorito the Panno.
And of course the classical ...Nbd7/...e5 against fianchetto too, which incidentally was what Kaspy used to play.
So, Kotronias, if you're listening, be a good sport and make a brother happy  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seth_Xoma
God Member
*****
Offline


FM with 2 IM Norms - (2381)

Posts: 558
Location: Lansing
Joined: 11/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #13 - 09/16/10 at 19:12:47
Post Tools
Us KID players are truly spoiled.  Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #12 - 09/16/10 at 19:01:22
Post Tools
WOW!  Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: East of the river Svartĺn
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #11 - 09/16/10 at 07:24:38
Post Tools
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #10 - 06/24/10 at 13:24:48
Post Tools
Quick question for Aagaard:

Will the book, assuming it will be published, cover secondary options for Black in several lines (like Marin), or only give one recommendation for Black in almost every line (like Avrukh)?
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fluffy
Full Member
***
Offline


International Master

Posts: 239
Location: USA
Joined: 08/01/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #9 - 06/24/10 at 12:25:27
Post Tools
this will be my last post here, as I do not want to hijack the thread. The King's Indian was kind of a first love for me, but then as I progressed I moved on to the more solid (but counterpunching) Slav and Semi-Slav complexes. One thing I like about both of these openings is they're both relatively move order-proff, unlike openings like the Nimzo (1.Nf3; 1.c4).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Alias
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1504
Location: East of the river Svartĺn
Joined: 11/19/04
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #8 - 06/24/10 at 07:23:25
Post Tools
Aagaard has mentioned a 2 volume work on Quality Chess a few times.

Vigorito's books are for Everyman. http://www.everymanchess.com/chess/books/Attacking_Chess%3A_The_King%27s_Indian%...

It's rather interesting that the three books in the Everyman "Attacking chess" series (Najdorf, French, KID) are for black.

I rather like the KID. I hope that we'll see it more in top level games as a change to the slav/semi-slav dominance. (I wonder what fluffy say about this as he has written about slav, semi-slav and now will work on the KID.)
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1719
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #7 - 06/24/10 at 07:10:28
Post Tools
fluffy wrote on 06/24/10 at 02:53:18:
TopNotch wrote on 06/24/10 at 01:08:12:
F22 wrote on 06/22/10 at 13:06:57:
If you look at Quality Chess's 2010 catalog they have announced a two volume GM repertoire on KID. Does anyone else have any information regarding the author?


I heard our very own Vigorito is doing a two volume work on the KID, but presumably these would be reference works as opposed to repertoire ones.

Tops Smiley



repertoire! Vol I Classical and Samisch, Vol II everything else.


Sounds like a must buy for any King's Indian player and probably for most 1.d4 players!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fluffy
Full Member
***
Offline


International Master

Posts: 239
Location: USA
Joined: 08/01/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #6 - 06/24/10 at 02:53:18
Post Tools
TopNotch wrote on 06/24/10 at 01:08:12:
F22 wrote on 06/22/10 at 13:06:57:
If you look at Quality Chess's 2010 catalog they have announced a two volume GM repertoire on KID. Does anyone else have any information regarding the author?


I heard our very own Vigorito is doing a two volume work on the KID, but presumably these would be reference works as opposed to repertoire ones.

Tops Smiley



repertoire! Vol I Classical and Samisch, Vol II everything else.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TopNotch
God Member
*****
Offline


I only look 1 move ahead,
but its always the best

Posts: 2121
Joined: 01/04/03
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #5 - 06/24/10 at 01:08:12
Post Tools
F22 wrote on 06/22/10 at 13:06:57:
If you look at Quality Chess's 2010 catalog they have announced a two volume GM repertoire on KID. Does anyone else have any information regarding the author?


I heard our very own Vigorito is doing a two volume work on the KID, but presumably these would be reference works as opposed to repertoire ones.

Tops Smiley
  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Ametanoitos
God Member
*****
Offline


The road to success is
under construction

Posts: 1427
Location: Patras
Joined: 01/04/05
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #4 - 06/23/10 at 22:57:45
Post Tools
Kotronias and Tiger also write middlegame books for Quality. So, i find more possible to be one of them than Kasim (who i'd prefer to see him write a QGD book)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
F22
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 306
Joined: 07/16/09
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #3 - 06/23/10 at 22:25:20
Post Tools
Bologan just recently wrote a KID book for Chess Stars so I doubt it is him. But Kasimdzhanov would be fantastic.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #2 - 06/23/10 at 10:42:50
Post Tools
Bologan would be a logical choice, if possible. Kasimdzhanov would be another good choice.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
thibdb13
God Member
*****
Offline


Tal was the best

Posts: 974
Location: Mechelen
Joined: 01/25/07
Gender: Male
Re: GM Repertoire KID!
Reply #1 - 06/22/10 at 13:40:04
Post Tools
No more mention of it on the blog of Quality Chess (http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/)... Huh
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
F22
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 306
Joined: 07/16/09
Gender: Male
GM Repertoire KID!
06/22/10 at 13:06:57
Post Tools
If you look at Quality Chess's 2010 catalog they have announced a two volume GM repertoire on KID. Does anyone else have any information regarding the author?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo