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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) c6-d5-e6 (Read 7985 times)
derdudea
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Re: c6-d5-e6
Reply #10 - 05/01/11 at 21:16:47
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Obviously, Shapiro himself found an improvement. 2008 he played 16.f3 h6 against Lavrentyev and drew pretty easy.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Sc3 c6 4.Sf3 dxc4 5.a4 Lb4 6.e3 b5 7.Ld2 a5 8.axb5 Lxc3 9.Lxc3 cxb5 10.b3 Lb7 11.bxc4 b4 12.Lb2 Sf6 13.Ld3 Sbd7 14.0–0 0–0 15.Sd2 Dc7 16.f3 h6 17.Lc2 Tfd8 18.Te1 Ta6 19.De2 Tda8 20.La4 Lc6 21.c5 e5 22.Lxc6 Dxc6 23.dxe5 Sd5 24.Se4 a4 25.Dc4 a3 26.Ld4 De6 27.Tad1 Sf8 28.La1 Sc3 29.Dxe6 Sxe6 30.Sxc3 bxc3 31.Tc1 Tc6 32.Txc3 Txc5 ½–½
  
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Schroeder
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Re: c6-d5-e6
Reply #9 - 05/01/11 at 18:24:03
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An interesting game in the 15.Nd2 line was



Remarkable: At move 26 Houdini consider the position as winning for White (+1.6), and this evaluation stays unchanged until the end of the game. But Black seems to have a kind of a fortress. If White advances his c- or d-pawn, this would only give the Black knights outposts on c5 or d5. White found no way to make any progress, probably there isn't one. Any comments on this game?
  
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derdudea
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Re: c6-d5-e6
Reply #8 - 01/09/11 at 23:02:49
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Markovich wrote on 08/17/10 at 14:39:26:
I think that one of the biggest challenges for Black, in the Noteboom, is 15.Nd2 instead of the more common 15.Re1.  If 15...e5 as recommended by Van der Werf and Van der Worm, 16.Bc2 Qc7 17.f4! exd4 18.exd4 and personally, I would much rather be White.  I would prefer 15...Qc7 16.f4 a4, which is much more dangerous for Black, but also much more promising.


You´re right to prefer 15....Qc7. I played it recently in a corrchess game and after 15.Sd2 Dc7 16.Lc2 Tfd8 17.f3 h6 18.Te1 Lc6 19.Kh1 Db6 the game was equal, 19....e5 should have been the  same. 15.Sd2 is one of the better variations of White, but the noteboom (main line!) is generally no problem for black, so "better" means: White had some pressure and got a draw without being in danger of losing. After two years corrchess playing the noteboom I firmely believe that´s the best White can get if he does not deviate within the first 4-6 moves!
  
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Re: c6-d5-e6
Reply #7 - 12/30/10 at 20:28:46
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keerik wrote on 12/30/10 at 18:59:47:
Hello everybody!What do you think about 4.cd?Are there any lines for black to avoid classical exchange variation of queen's gambit declined?Maybe after 4...ed 5.Nf3 5...Nd7 is playable to avoid both Bg5 and Bf4?Or it doesn't make any sense?
Thx,Keerik.


A short answer:  4. cd is standardly considered innocuous, which has to do with Black's ability to comfortably develop his QB (e.g. on 5. Nf3, 5...Bf5 is fine).
  
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keerik
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Re: c6-d5-e6
Reply #6 - 12/30/10 at 18:59:47
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Hello everybody!What do you think about 4.cd?Are there any lines for black to avoid classical exchange variation of queen's gambit declined?Maybe after 4...ed 5.Nf3 5...Nd7 is playable to avoid both Bg5 and Bf4?Or it doesn't make any sense?
Thx,Keerik.
  
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Markovich
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Re: c6-d5-e6
Reply #5 - 08/17/10 at 14:39:26
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It is perhaps worth noting that Yuri Shulman ~2650 regularly plays the Triangle as Black.   He only plays it against 3.Nc3; against 3.Nf3 he plays 3...Nf6 and if 4.Nc3 or 4.Bg5, 4...dxc4 usually transposing into a Vienna.

I think that one of the biggest challenges for Black, in the Noteboom, is 15.Nd2 instead of the more common 15.Re1.  If 15...e5 as recommended by Van der Werf and Van der Worm, 16.Bc2 Qc7 17.f4! exd4 18.exd4 and personally, I would much rather be White.  I would prefer 15...Qc7 16.f4 a4, which is much more dangerous for Black, but also much more promising.

In case of 3.Nc3 c6 4.e3, Black can try 4...Bd6, which is a sort of tempo-struggle, designed to avoid 4...f5 5.g4 Nf6 6.gxf5 exf5 7.Qb3, when the bishop comes out with tempo in case of 7...dxc4.  After 4...Bd6 by contrast, Black can watch White's next move and play 5...f5 if it's normal, like 5.Bd3, or 5...Nf6 if it's silly, like 5.f3!?.  E.g. after 4...Bd6 5.Bd3 f5 6.g4, Black appears to doing better than after 4...f5 5.g4, since White has already spent a tempo on his KB.  

But I believe that Shulman mostly just plays 4...Nf6 after 4.e3.
  

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Re: c6-d5-e6
Reply #4 - 08/17/10 at 08:40:35
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cma6 wrote on 08/17/10 at 02:50:13:
What to do against d4 d5 c4 e6 Nc3 c6? Play e3 and go to a Meran. 
This is precisely my question as a White QGD D35 player. 
Do you have any more up-to-date recommendations on the, Meran? As White, I'm especially concerned with this move order, e.g, 1 d4, d5; 2 c4, e6; 3 Nc3, c6; 4 Nf3, Nf6; 5 e3
  I don't think 5 Bg5 leads anywhere, too analyzed but I need a good resource on the Meran.


Analysis on the Meran is equally as dense as analysis on 5. Bg5. Calling 5. Bg5 "too analyzed" is funny given that fact.

As for whether 5. Bg5 leads to anything - that's an entirely separate subject.
  

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Re: c6-d5-e6
Reply #3 - 08/17/10 at 02:50:13
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What to do against d4 d5 c4 e6 Nc3 c6? Play e3 and go to a Meran. 
This is precisely my question as a White QGD D35 player. 
Do you have any more up-to-date recommendations on the, Meran? As White, I'm especially concerned with this move order, e.g, 1 d4, d5; 2 c4, e6; 3 Nc3, c6; 4 Nf3, Nf6; 5 e3
  I don't think 5 Bg5 leads anywhere, too analyzed but I need a good resource on the Meran.
  
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Re: c6-d5-e6
Reply #2 - 06/26/10 at 19:07:24
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The Noteboom is an excellent practical choice for black against a white player who is not 100% theoretically prepared and/or doesn't feel at home in sharp, unbalanced positions. The point is that black gets the advantage on the queenside, usually 2 connected passed pawns, and white has to show his compensation or he might even be worse. I'm not sure about the Noteboom's current status, but the last article I've seen (Pelletier in CBM ca. 3 years ago) found an advantage for white in one of the main lines.

So I guess for 9 out of 10 players it's a good idea to avoid it.

The e4 gambit is very dangerous. If black takes the pawn and doesn't know his stuff he won't even make it out of the opening. If he is booked up you still have decent compensation. I've only seen it from the black side, but I assume it's pretty easy to get into for white.
The declined gambit (4.  e4 Bb4) is okay for both sides. Depending on the source white either gets a normal opening advantage or equality in a position untypical of a semi-Slav.

I don't like 4.e3 f5 for black because white gets promising active play with 5.g4!? fxg4?! [AFAIR Nh6 is better] 6.Qxg4 Nf6 7.Qg2. Of course white can also transpose into a normal Stonewall.
  
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Re: c6-d5-e6
Reply #1 - 06/26/10 at 16:28:48
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Yes, those are the options with 3.Nc3 in.  Which to pick mainly comes down to a matter of personal preference.  A few thoughts: 

These days, I take it that most sources consider playing into the Noteboom a hazardous thing to do.  Schandorff is the notable exception and, in the main 7..a5 line, he recommends 8.Rb1!? That may be worth exploring, and if you don't like that but still want to play 4.Nf3, you might look at 5.Bg5!?

I'm not sure where theory stands on the Marshall.  A few years ago the tide had turned in White's favor, and the Marshall was recommended by Dunnington  and Cox in their respective 1.d4 books.  A big line was 8.Be2 Na6 9.Ba5 (9.Bd6 is another line, 9.Bc3 seems out of favor) but I don't know if White found an answer to 9..f6 10.Qd8 Kf7 11.0-0-0 e5 12.Bd3 Qxg2.  Attention seemed to be turning to 10.Nf3.  May be worth exploring.

4.e3 is a good choice if you have the Meran in your repertoire.  Otherwise the big Meran lines are sharp and a lot to learn to meet a line that you won't see that often.  Maybe try some of the quieter set-ups with Qc2, Be2, b3, Bb2.  4..f5 should not be a worry. You can play a comfortable set-up with 5.Bd3, 6.Nge2, 7.Qc2, 8.f3 or simply 5.f4, 6.Nf3, 7.Be2.

  
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c6-d5-e6
06/25/10 at 20:29:44
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What to do against d4 d5 c4 e6 Nc3 c6? Play e3 and go to a meran. However black can play f5 in that variation. Or Nf3, but i have the feeling that the Nootenboom is a really hard nut to crack. Or go for the immediate e4?
  
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