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Normal Topic Spicing up Black's play vs 6 Re1 in the Open Lopez (Read 4701 times)
Paddy
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Re: Spicing up Black's play vs 6 Re1 in the Open Lopez
Reply #2 - 11/06/10 at 22:58:11
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NeverGiveUp wrote on 11/05/10 at 14:02:41:
Dear paddy

I think you have already answered your own question - 6. ... b5!? is the move to go for.

There are 6 games with b5 on Nicbase and black seems to be doing OK.

Two variations you didn't mention - 7.Bb3 d5 8.Nc3!? is stricky but should be OK for black, and white's best is probably the even trickier 7.Ne5:!? (threatening Qh5+) and after 7. ... Ne5: 8.Re4:. After 8. ...d6(!) 9.d4 Bb7 10.Re3 ba4 11.de5 de5 12.Qe2 Kf8, followed by Qd7, black is OK.    


Thanks for responding. So little interest was shown in this line that I did not post my later findings.

Here is what I concluded some months ago: if White can find (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Nxe4 6.Re1) 6...b5 7.Bb3 d5 8.Nc3! Nxc3 9.dxc3 Be6 10.a4! b4 11.a5! Black could be in some difficulty. The engines think he has to play 10...b4. which is almost an indictment in itself.

So basically Black would be gambling that White would play the obvious 8 d3 Nf6 9 Nxe5 Nxe5 10 Rxe5 Be6 intending ...Bd6, when I believe Black has a slight edge and can play for a win. As Larsen once wrote, I don't like playing stuff I know how to refute,
or something like that.

The position after 6...Nc5 7.Bxc6 dxc6 8.Nxe5 Be7 is a tedious one but Black has no real worries and something to nibble.

The main problem that I came up against when researching this line for Black is 6...Nc5 7 Nc3!? angling for the same trap that can arise in the Berlin:
7...Nxa4 (7... Be7 8. Nd5 Nxa4 9. Nxe5 Nc5 10. Nxc6 dxc6 11. Nxe7 Be6=) 8. Nxe5 Nxe5
(8... Nxc3 9. Nxc6+ Be7 10. Nxe7 Nxd1 11. Ng6+ Qe7 12. Nxe7+-;
8... Be7 9. Nd5 Nc5 10. Nxc6 dxc6 11. Nxe7 Be6=)
9. Rxe5+ Be7 10. Nd5 O-O 11. Nxe7+ Kh8 12. Qh5! +-

In this line it is Black who has to avoid all the traps but even if he manages that he may not even emerge with the bishop pair. So unless we've missed something (more than possible!) it would seem therefore that White is playing for two results!
BTW I notice that some Latvian masters were playing this a while ago.

However, that great 1 e4 e5 specialist Ivan Sokolov (who often goes to great lengths to try to win with Black, sometimes coming a real cropper though!) chose 7...d6!? after 7 Nc3. This at least makes a complex game of it and it seems Black will get to keep his bishops, at least for the time being. Maybe this is the way to go.

File attached. Comments and suggestions most welcome.

  

OpenLopez6Re1.pgn ( 19 KB | 191 Downloads )
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NeverGiveUp
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Re: Spicing up Black's play vs 6 Re1 in the Open Lopez
Reply #1 - 11/05/10 at 14:02:41
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Dear paddy

I think you have already answered your own question - 6. ... b5!? is the move to go for.

There are 6 games with b5 on Nicbase and black seems to be doing OK.

Two variations you didn't mention - 7.Bb3 d5 8.Nc3!? is stricky but should be OK for black, and white's best is probably the even trickier 7.Ne5:!? (threatening Qh5+) and after 7. ... Ne5: 8.Re4:. After 8. ...d6(!) 9.d4 Bb7 10.Re3 ba4 11.de5 de5 12.Qe2 Kf8, followed by Qd7, black is OK.
  
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Paddy
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Spicing up Black's play vs 6 Re1 in the Open Lopez
06/30/10 at 17:32:36
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At lower levels of play, the otherwise attractive Open Defence to the Spanish is often met by 6 Re1 instead of 6 d4, and after 6..Nc5 Black is OK if he know what he is doing, but the play can become very tedious.

So I'm looking for an alternative to 6...Nc5 that, without being unsound, can ask more questions of the white player.

First idea: does anyone know a refutation of 6...b5 with the idea of 7 Bb3 d5  ? You'd think that there was an opbvious refutation, but I'm d*ed if I can see it.

BTW I think 7 Rxe4 can be met by 7...d5 8 R moves bxa4 and 7 Nxe5 by 7...Nxe5 8 Rxe4 Be7 9 Rxe5 bxa4 10 Qe2 d5 11 d4 Be6 when the bishop pair is comp. for the split pawns.
  
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