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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) New philidor book by Barski (Read 19864 times)
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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #16 - 07/24/10 at 22:00:29
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MNb wrote on 07/24/10 at 21:14:05:
Anders wrote on 07/24/10 at 20:09:56:
I assume as a way of not having to deal with with existing theory.

Then Black might consider the shuffle 8...Qe8 and 9...Bd8 as well.


This is the Pickett-shuffle, mainly invented against 8.Qe2 as far as I remember. Len Pickett once wrote a pamphlet on the whole idea.
Bauer in Philidor files marks the Pickett-shuffle after 8.Re1 a dubios idea. 8...Qe8 9.h3 Bd8 10.a5 Bc7 11.d5 with a clear plus. Imo it is wrong to give White way to play a4-a5 in the shuffle. Better to prevent it with a7-a5 before going to shuffle the pieces. This is in accordance with Jansen/van Rekom who give 8...Qe8 a "?!" giving the direct 9.a5 Bd8 10.d5. They are predecessors to Barsky in that they give 8...a5 as best with "!" and after 9.h3 the shuffle with 9...Qe8 receives their mild judgement (equal after 10.Be3 Bd8 11.Qd2 Bc7 12.Ba2 Qe7 Rad1 Re8 and Nd7-f8 - have not checked it). On the other hand that creates some latent weaknesses (b6/c5).

A nice shuffle was once played by the notorious Gerard Welling.
Riemersma - Welling, Netherlands 1984.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 (as the old ones played... as far as I know 4.dxe5 today is unpleasent and so we nowadays play Philidor as a variation of the Pirc. As times go by.) 4...Nbd7 5.Bc4 Be7 6.0-0 0-0 7.Re1 c6 8.Bb3 Qe8 9.Nh4 (?! at least imo) 9...exd4 10.Qxd4 Ne5 11.f4 Nfg4 12.Nf5 Bxf5 13.exf5 Bd8!  (thx to the Q on d4 effective) 14.Qe4 Bb6+ 15.Kf1 d5 0-1
  

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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #15 - 07/24/10 at 21:20:41
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Anders wrote on 07/24/10 at 20:09:56:
checking Megabase 2010 there are only 17 games played with 8...Rb8 so there are not so much earlier games to draw from.

Martin sees this as a crafty move order (and I assume as a way of not having to deal with with existing theory) where black avoid commiting the bishop on c8 early and plans to play b6, a6, b5.

The idea is also that white attacking options with d5 can be met with c5 blockading the queenside whereafter black can try to play on the kingside.

For further details I refer to the DVD where this is covered in the main line section via three commented games.

/ A

Ps.
It can hardly be good for white to allow black to get the bishop pair with 10...Nxe3.



Well, in some way 8...Rb8 seems to be a sort of passing. I don't see how plans to play b6, a6, b5 shall work. White can throw a spanner in the work. E.g. 9.h3 b6 10. Qe2 and now 10...a6 is prevented for now cause the rook does not cover that square.
Compared with the earlier mentioned variation 7...a6 8.a4 b6 9.h3 c6 that is no progress. The latter variation is a clear attempt to get things going without being disturbed (as in normal 7...c6 8.a4 b6 9.d5); the Martin-idea does not work that fluently.

It is right that the option d4-d5 is less effective after 8...Rb8 than after 8...b6. In the latter case after 9.d5 c5 White has the lever 10.a5 which leave White with clearly better prospects.
After 8...Rb8 9.d5 is simply without inspiration. Black can play 9...c5 but there is also the option to play 9...Nb6 10.Bb3 cxd5.
  

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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #14 - 07/24/10 at 21:14:05
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Anders wrote on 07/24/10 at 20:09:56:
I assume as a way of not having to deal with with existing theory.

Then Black might consider the shuffle 8...Qe8 and 9...Bd8 as well.
  

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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #13 - 07/24/10 at 20:09:56
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motörhead wrote on 07/24/10 at 19:00:15:
Anders wrote on 07/24/10 at 14:22:12:
7.Re1 c6. 8.a4 Rb8 is the Martin recommendation. 

The Kuzmin article has a typcial NIC YB format, e.g. first two few pages with text and then some pages with games.
In total five pages.

/ A


Thx Anders,

I am really surprised. Bauer does not even know this little Rook bounce. And I don't unterstand it right away.

8...Rb8 stops 9.a5 with the idea 9...b5, yes. And on 9.Be3 he probably suggests 9...Ng4 but what about 10.dxe5 Nxe3 11.Rxe3 dxe5 12.Rd3 or simply 10.Bd2, idea h2-h3 and Bd2-e3 again. And what about 9.h3 preventing Nf6-g4 at all with the idea 10.Be3, Xa7?

What is the idea, Martin gives after Rb8, what makes this move better than the usual b7-b6 or at least an alternative to it?

What are the conclusions, Martin give. How does he jugde his main line with that rook-move?


Checking Megabase 2010 there are only 17 games played with 8...Rb8 so there are not so much earlier games to draw from.

Martin sees this as a crafty move order (and I assume as a way of not having to deal with with existing theory) where black avoid commiting the bishop on c8 early and plans to play b6, a6, b5.

The idea is also that white attacking options with d5 can be met with c5 blockading the queenside whereafter black can try to play on the kingside.

For further details I refer to the DVD where this is covered in the main line section via three commented games.

/ A

Ps.
It can hardly be good for white to allow black to get the bishop pair with 10...Nxe3.
  
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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #12 - 07/24/10 at 19:00:15
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Anders wrote on 07/24/10 at 14:22:12:
7.Re1 c6. 8.a4 Rb8 is the Martin recommendation. 

The Kuzmin article has a typcial NIC YB format, e.g. first two few pages with text and then some pages with games.
In total five pages.

/ A


Thx Anders,

I am really surprised. Bauer does not even know this little Rook bounce. And I don't unterstand it right away.

8...Rb8 stops 9.a5 with the idea 9...b5, yes. And on 9.Be3 he probably suggests 9...Ng4 but what about 10.dxe5 Nxe3 11.Rxe3 dxe5 12.Rd3 or simply 10.Bd2, idea h2-h3 and Bd2-e3 again. And what about 9.h3 preventing Nf6-g4 at all with the idea 10.Be3, Xa7?

What is the idea, Martin gives after Rb8, what makes this move better than the usual b7-b6 or at least an alternative to it?

What are the conclusions, Martin give. How does he jugde his main line with that rook-move?
  

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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #11 - 07/24/10 at 14:22:12
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motörhead wrote on 07/24/10 at 11:47:56:
Anders wrote on 07/22/10 at 18:56:37:
The title of the Martin DVD is a bit misleading. He recommends a version of the Philidor Hanham  (with a quick Rb8), not the Lion (with h6, c6, Qc7, Nf8, g5 ...) as given in the Jansen  /van Rekom book.

/ A

Ps.
The 7.Re1 a6 8.a4 b6 variation is interesting.  Kuzmin had a good survey about it in YB 91.


Then I have to apologize to Andrew Martin for accusing him to deliver a copy. Sorry. I interpreted the title wrongly.
But what variation does he exactly give with Ra8-b8? This little Rook-move gives away control of a7 which is vulnerable to a Bishop on e3.

And on Kuzmin: How many pages does his article has? I personally think that it is best not to block - after 7.Re1 a6 8.a4 b6 - with 9.d5 but to continue with 9.b3 or 9.h3 after which 9...c6 is a very normal Hanham-setup for Black - better then after 7...c6 8.a4 b6 9.d5 - with complex play. This imo is the main line. The KID-way for White seems worse to me.


7.Re1 c6. 8.a4 Rb8 is the Martin recommendation. 

The Kuzmin article has a typcial NIC YB format, e.g. first two few pages with text and then some pages with games.
In total five pages.

/ A
  
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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #10 - 07/24/10 at 11:47:56
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Anders wrote on 07/22/10 at 18:56:37:
The title of the Martin DVD is a bit misleading. He recommends a version of the Philidor Hanham  (with a quick Rb8), not the Lion (with h6, c6, Qc7, Nf8, g5 ...) as given in the Jansen  /van Rekom book.

/ A

Ps.
The 7.Re1 a6 8.a4 b6 variation is interesting.  Kuzmin had a good survey about it in YB 91.


Then I have to apologize to Andrew Martin for accusing him to deliver a copy. Sorry. I interpreted the title wrongly.
But what variation does he exactly give with Ra8-b8? This little Rook-move gives away control of a7 which is vulnerable to a Bishop on e3.

And on Kuzmin: How many pages does his article has? I personally think that it is best not to block - after 7.Re1 a6 8.a4 b6 - with 9.d5 but to continue with 9.b3 or 9.h3 after which 9...c6 is a very normal Hanham-setup for Black - better then after 7...c6 8.a4 b6 9.d5 - with complex play. This imo is the main line. The KID-way for White seems worse to me.
  

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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #9 - 07/22/10 at 18:56:37
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Bibs wrote on 07/22/10 at 14:56:28:
motörhead wrote on 07/21/10 at 20:28:43:
Bibs wrote on 07/19/10 at 15:02:28:
Anders wrote on 07/19/10 at 10:41:03:
Barsky recommends (after 7.Re1) 7....c6 8.a4 a5.

My general feeling (I have not worked it through in detail) is that it is "light-weight".   I prefer the Bologan Fritz-trainer.

Having said that, the recommendations differ in several places so it may still be worth getting anyway.

The bibliography includes Bauers "The Philidor files" (incorrectly stating it to be published in 2009, it was reprinted then) but lack the other resources you listed.

/ A

Ps.
A Philidor "resource" missing from your list is the Foxy DVD "The Lion" by Martin.  That one I think however you can skip given what you already have.


Agree, lightweight.
Bologan plus Bauer.
Bologan has plenty to say, but he is very dull to  watch.
Thick accent, plus he is no one's physical comic.
Plus the standard chessbase, 'we will not have our presenters looking at the camera, no way' schtick.
Nice fella tho, no doubt.


I don't know Bologan cause I think those DVDs are a waste of money. I really get angry when I read that Andy Martin now seemingly has made a DVD on the Lion. Without having seen a second of it I am sure: That must be poor product because this variation is dubios. But it nevertheless can draw money out of the pockets, I feel. Oh boy. It's books that count. If it is for the Lion than buy Jansen/van Rekom, the true warriors und not this... sorry excuse of a copy.
Angry

Back to books: Barsky is indeed lightweight, absolutely. I was disappointed.
He has nothing special to add to Kosten's book in the variation 7.Qe2 where Barsky only deals with 7...exd4 8.Nxd4 c5 or 7...c6 8.a4 exd4 9.Nxd4 c5. Lean production there.
And his handling off 7.Re1 too is simply meagre.
As Anders said above he only deals with 7...c6 8.a4 a5, a variation that is dealt with in depth in Carpathian Warrior. Barsky does not really change much on that.
But he does not even touch on the more dynamic possibilty 8...b6 (which bears some slight problems, cause Black after 9.d5 at least isn't able to muddy the waters enough for an interessting play to come) and he also passes concerning the interessting idea 7.Re1 a6!? which after 8.a4 b6 9.h3 (or 9.b3) 9...c6 leads to a tense struggle. And after 9.d5 there are several games where Black employed a King's Indian way to commence with sth like Nf6-e8, g7-g6, Ne8-g7 and f7-f5 to comme or Kg8-h8, Nf6-g8, g7-g6 (if I remember that right, I save my notes on paper, which is in two rooms distance...)
It disappointing - or am I allowed to say lazy - that Barsky missed these opportunities.
All the more I think his concept fails. He allways gives an abstract of a chapter before going deeper. This is superfluous to me. He should have used these pages to deals with other ideas in the Philidor.
I would jugde the book with only one star cause Barsky has nothing to say. So he shouldn't write a whole book on that nothing...
Sad


But their book has been universally butchered in reviews. Summarising the reviews:
Enthusiastic work, but hampered by their low level and their blinkers. Sometimes being keen just isn't enough.


The title of the Martin DVD is a bit misleading. He recommends a version of the Philidor Hanham  (with a quick Rb8), not the Lion (with h6, c6, Qc7, Nf8, g5 ...) as given in the Jansen  /van Rekom book.

/ A

Ps.
The 7.Re1 a6 8.a4 b6 variation is interesting.  Kuzmin had a good survey about it in YB 91.
  
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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #8 - 07/22/10 at 14:56:28
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motörhead wrote on 07/21/10 at 20:28:43:
Bibs wrote on 07/19/10 at 15:02:28:
Anders wrote on 07/19/10 at 10:41:03:
Barsky recommends (after 7.Re1) 7....c6 8.a4 a5.

My general feeling (I have not worked it through in detail) is that it is "light-weight".   I prefer the Bologan Fritz-trainer.

Having said that, the recommendations differ in several places so it may still be worth getting anyway.

The bibliography includes Bauers "The Philidor files" (incorrectly stating it to be published in 2009, it was reprinted then) but lack the other resources you listed.

/ A

Ps.
A Philidor "resource" missing from your list is the Foxy DVD "The Lion" by Martin.  That one I think however you can skip given what you already have.


Agree, lightweight.
Bologan plus Bauer.
Bologan has plenty to say, but he is very dull to  watch.
Thick accent, plus he is no one's physical comic.
Plus the standard chessbase, 'we will not have our presenters looking at the camera, no way' schtick.
Nice fella tho, no doubt.


I don't know Bologan cause I think those DVDs are a waste of money. I really get angry when I read that Andy Martin now seemingly has made a DVD on the Lion. Without having seen a second of it I am sure: That must be poor product because this variation is dubios. But it nevertheless can draw money out of the pockets, I feel. Oh boy. It's books that count. If it is for the Lion than buy Jansen/van Rekom, the true warriors und not this... sorry excuse of a copy.
Angry

Back to books: Barsky is indeed lightweight, absolutely. I was disappointed.
He has nothing special to add to Kosten's book in the variation 7.Qe2 where Barsky only deals with 7...exd4 8.Nxd4 c5 or 7...c6 8.a4 exd4 9.Nxd4 c5. Lean production there.
And his handling off 7.Re1 too is simply meagre.
As Anders said above he only deals with 7...c6 8.a4 a5, a variation that is dealt with in depth in Carpathian Warrior. Barsky does not really change much on that.
But he does not even touch on the more dynamic possibilty 8...b6 (which bears some slight problems, cause Black after 9.d5 at least isn't able to muddy the waters enough for an interessting play to come) and he also passes concerning the interessting idea 7.Re1 a6!? which after 8.a4 b6 9.h3 (or 9.b3) 9...c6 leads to a tense struggle. And after 9.d5 there are several games where Black employed a King's Indian way to commence with sth like Nf6-e8, g7-g6, Ne8-g7 and f7-f5 to comme or Kg8-h8, Nf6-g8, g7-g6 (if I remember that right, I save my notes on paper, which is in two rooms distance...)
It disappointing - or am I allowed to say lazy - that Barsky missed these opportunities.
All the more I think his concept fails. He allways gives an abstract of a chapter before going deeper. This is superfluous to me. He should have used these pages to deals with other ideas in the Philidor.
I would jugde the book with only one star cause Barsky has nothing to say. So he shouldn't write a whole book on that nothing...
Sad


But their book has been universally butchered in reviews. Summarising the reviews:
Enthusiastic work, but hampered by their low level and their blinkers. Sometimes being keen just isn't enough.
  
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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #7 - 07/21/10 at 20:28:43
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Bibs wrote on 07/19/10 at 15:02:28:
Anders wrote on 07/19/10 at 10:41:03:
Barsky recommends (after 7.Re1) 7....c6 8.a4 a5.

My general feeling (I have not worked it through in detail) is that it is "light-weight".   I prefer the Bologan Fritz-trainer.

Having said that, the recommendations differ in several places so it may still be worth getting anyway.

The bibliography includes Bauers "The Philidor files" (incorrectly stating it to be published in 2009, it was reprinted then) but lack the other resources you listed.

/ A

Ps.
A Philidor "resource" missing from your list is the Foxy DVD "The Lion" by Martin.  That one I think however you can skip given what you already have.


Agree, lightweight.
Bologan plus Bauer.
Bologan has plenty to say, but he is very dull to  watch.
Thick accent, plus he is no one's physical comic.
Plus the standard chessbase, 'we will not have our presenters looking at the camera, no way' schtick.
Nice fella tho, no doubt.


I don't know Bologan cause I think those DVDs are a waste of money. I really get angry when I read that Andy Martin now seemingly has made a DVD on the Lion. Without having seen a second of it I am sure: That must be poor product because this variation is dubios. But it nevertheless can draw money out of the pockets, I feel. Oh boy. It's books that count. If it is for the Lion than buy Jansen/van Rekom, the true warriors und not this... sorry excuse of a copy.
Angry

Back to books: Barsky is indeed lightweight, absolutely. I was disappointed.
He has nothing special to add to Kosten's book in the variation 7.Qe2 where Barsky only deals with 7...exd4 8.Nxd4 c5 or 7...c6 8.a4 exd4 9.Nxd4 c5. Lean production there.
And his handling off 7.Re1 too is simply meagre.
As Anders said above he only deals with 7...c6 8.a4 a5, a variation that is dealt with in depth in Carpathian Warrior. Barsky does not really change much on that.
But he does not even touch on the more dynamic possibilty 8...b6 (which bears some slight problems, cause Black after 9.d5 at least isn't able to muddy the waters enough for an interessting play to come) and he also passes concerning the interessting idea 7.Re1 a6!? which after 8.a4 b6 9.h3 (or 9.b3) 9...c6 leads to a tense struggle. And after 9.d5 there are several games where Black employed a King's Indian way to commence with sth like Nf6-e8, g7-g6, Ne8-g7 and f7-f5 to comme or Kg8-h8, Nf6-g8, g7-g6 (if I remember that right, I save my notes on paper, which is in two rooms distance...)
It disappointing - or am I allowed to say lazy - that Barsky missed these opportunities.
All the more I think his concept fails. He allways gives an abstract of a chapter before going deeper. This is superfluous to me. He should have used these pages to deals with other ideas in the Philidor.
I would jugde the book with only one star cause Barsky has nothing to say. So he shouldn't write a whole book on that nothing...
Sad
  

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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #6 - 07/19/10 at 16:42:37
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thanks to your answers;
according to the question with which book to start:
maybe easiest way would be the DVD from Bologan
  
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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #5 - 07/19/10 at 15:02:28
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Anders wrote on 07/19/10 at 10:41:03:
Barsky recommends (after 7.Re1) 7....c6 8.a4 a5.

My general feeling (I have not worked it through in detail) is that it is "light-weight".   I prefer the Bologan Fritz-trainer.

Having said that, the recommendations differ in several places so it may still be worth getting anyway.

The bibliography includes Bauers "The Philidor files" (incorrectly stating it to be published in 2009, it was reprinted then) but lack the other resources you listed.

/ A

Ps.
A Philidor "resource" missing from your list is the Foxy DVD "The Lion" by Martin.  That one I think however you can skip given what you already have.


Agree, lightweight.
Bologan plus Bauer.
Bologan has plenty to say, but he is very dull to  watch.
Thick accent, plus he is no one's physical comic.
Plus the standard chessbase, 'we will not have our presenters looking at the camera, no way' schtick.
Nice fella tho, no doubt.
  
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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #4 - 07/19/10 at 14:58:44
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Markovich wrote on 07/19/10 at 13:12:18:
Philidor belongs in 1.e4 e5, eh?  That's where it's classified in ECO, anyhow.


But time has rather moved on and it is now more commonly played via the d6 Nf6 e5 move order, so sensible to discuss here I would think. Best to leave.
  
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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #3 - 07/19/10 at 13:12:18
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Philidor belongs in 1.e4 e5, eh?  That's where it's classified in ECO, anyhow.
  

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Re: New philidor book by Barski
Reply #2 - 07/19/10 at 12:59:22
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I am considering starting with the philidor, mainly because i found sone of Nimzowitsh games in the hanham variation fascinating. Also i am slowly realizing that i quite like maneovring in crampled but solid positions where you can slowly outplay your opponent. My rating is around 1700, what is the best resource to start with?
Someone recommended me The Philidor files, what is your opinion?Do you have a suggestion?
I have read reviews which suggested this book as too advanced for my level
  
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