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Normal Topic Lion (3_Nbd7 4f4/g4) with Philidor/Hanham or 1_g6? (Read 3900 times)
BPaulsen
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Re: Lion (3_Nbd7 4f4/g4) with Philidor/Hanham or 1_g6?
Reply #3 - 07/26/10 at 06:26:18
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My score with the Pirc/Modern (1...g6) in practice has been stellar (0 losses in 8 games, surrendering 1 draw), but I only use it versus against 2100 and under except for one extreme rarity.

My one game against a 2300 ended in a draw.

Even then it's still mostly a surprise weapon when it's a must-win game, or if I'm avoiding an opponent that knows my normal repertoire well (the 2300, FM Adamson, worked with the chess team I was on when we won High School Nationals, hence a reason to avoid entering my normal lines).
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
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Re: Lion (3_Nbd7 4f4/g4) with Philidor/Hanham or 1_g6?
Reply #2 - 07/25/10 at 19:33:01
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@motörhead:
I am inclined to agree. Thanks.
It may sound odd why I prefer to switch between defences depending on opponent,
but I still think it is easier to outplay certain players with one that is underestimated and allows White much, while delaying direct contact between the forces.
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: Lion (3_Nbd7 4f4/g4) with Philidor/Hanham or 1_g6?
Reply #1 - 07/25/10 at 13:56:54
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HoemberChess wrote on 07/25/10 at 09:51:23:
I wonder if it is worth the energy for me (with my modest 40-50 OTB-games a year) to study (and play) more than one so-called _sound_ defences vs 1.e4 against u2200-players (until I am "2200+")... Probably not.

Because I recall choosing (1.e4) 1..g6 (and improvizing a lot, making use of my experience with the various defences I had tried) in the past even against "2100-something" players, when they often got lost, played incompatible moves and I gradually took over the initiative and won the interesting games. (We didn't even reach the endgame. Actually, I managed to win all the 1..g6-games, and I mainly used the book Tiger's Modern as reference.)

While after the sound 1..c6 (which is a good choice as my No.#1 defence vs. 1.e4 and I continue to study it, but now I prefer to keep it against stronger opposition), players with the same strength got more comfortable positions after the same number of pairs of moves by choosing, say, the simplifying exchange variation.

On the other hand, I remember playing 1..g6 against "2200+"-players and they did have some ideas about how to handle it.

So, the next one in my series of stupid questions
(I still have a few of the kind left, "thanks" to the limited OTB-experience)
is, whether out of my candidates for a backup-defence
- the Modern (1.e4 g6)
or
- the Lion (1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nbd7, aiming for the Philidor/Hanham after 4.Nf3 e5, which is also a complex try, presenting White with "opportunities" to get lost--I have watched Bologan's Fighting Philidor several times)
is better for those weaker Whites to "find" their own green moves OR should I study both?


The answer is clear to me. Even though I am a somehow experienced Hanham-player (d6/e5 with Nf6, Nbd7 and Be7) I suggest clearly to stick to 1...g6. That's simply more enterprising, gives the Bishop better prospects and covers the soft spot f5 (which all to often plays his role in the Hanham). Too you have several opportunities at hand to counterattack in the center. Hanham in comparison is quite static.

The Hanham is easy to learn. But that's all. If White simply acts slightly carefull without ambition, Black only has chances to draw - e.g. after simple dxe5 dxe5 the pawn-position is equal and you will have severe problems to find ways for an initiative, even though there is the famous game Evenson - Alekhine. There are not enough imbalances to count on.
So against weaker players you have to take a higher risk to net in the point if you adopt the Hanham.
In other words: As White it is "easier" to go wrong in the Modern than in the Hanham.
And stronger players find ways to excert some pressure on Black. That is my experience.

I find it somehow amusing to call Philidor fighting. It is a defence, solid, passive somehow. So I would call it The holding Philidor (which hopes to sedate the opponent). Fighting? Not really - or you can call every opening fighting. I call the King's Indian Defence fighting, which bears a lot of counter measures.

  

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HoemberChess
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Lion (3_Nbd7 4f4/g4) with Philidor/Hanham or 1_g6?
07/25/10 at 09:51:23
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I wonder if it is worth the energy for me (with my modest 40-50 OTB-games a year) to study (and play) more than one so-called _sound_ defences vs 1.e4 against u2200-players (until I am "2200+")... Probably not.

Because I recall choosing (1.e4) 1..g6 (and improvizing a lot, making use of my experience with the various defences I had tried) in the past even against "2100-something" players, when they often got lost, played incompatible moves and I gradually took over the initiative and won the interesting games. (We didn't even reach the endgame. Actually, I managed to win all the 1..g6-games, and I mainly used the book Tiger's Modern as reference.)

While after the sound 1..c6 (which is a good choice as my No.#1 defence vs. 1.e4 and I continue to study it, but now I prefer to keep it against stronger opposition), players with the same strength got more comfortable positions after the same number of pairs of moves by choosing, say, the simplifying exchange variation.

On the other hand, I remember playing 1..g6 against "2200+"-players and they did have some ideas about how to handle it.

So, the next one in my series of stupid questions
(I still have a few of the kind left, "thanks" to the limited OTB-experience)
is, whether out of my candidates for a backup-defence
- the Modern (1.e4 g6)
or
- the Lion (1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nbd7, aiming for the Philidor/Hanham after 4.Nf3 e5, which is also a complex try, presenting White with "opportunities" to get lost--I have watched Bologan's Fighting Philidor several times)
is better for those weaker Whites to "find" their own green moves OR should I study both?
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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