Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated (Read 10148 times)
Randomeister
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


1...Nf6 against everything!

Posts: 6
Location: Lund, Sweden
Joined: 07/29/10
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #12 - 08/05/10 at 12:43:33
Post Tools
I'm very grateful for all your suggestions! I agree with Volcanor that if I was playing 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 as well, then Qxd4 would make most sense. However, I have played the Maroczy for a while already, and may continue in order to play on the experience I already have. I play 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ mostly to avoid main line Dragon, but also some of the huge Najdorf theory complex.

I think I'll leave 3.h4!? for now, but I'll try to get SOS 6 and check out the variations for sure! Might be a good Blitz weapon. After all, a fair few people play the HA only in Blitz, so why not counter?!

Regarding Opening for White according to Kramnik vol 3, I have searched for a little while, but not found it yet. It is out of print, and the publisher is currently in the process of updating vol 5 to a 2nd edition. Is there anyone who could point me to a used bookseller where I could find it? Preferrably in (northern) Europe, but I guess I could splurge with the postage from US as well if necessary.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Volcanor
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 61
Location: Switzerland
Joined: 03/16/09
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #11 - 08/03/10 at 08:18:47
Post Tools
The 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 is probably not the most common way to reach the Dragon, but it is nevertheless used by different players to avoid the 3.Bb5+ variation. I think that you have 3 interesting options to avoid being move-orderer into the Dragon after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6

Option 1: You play 3.c4, hoping to reach a Maroczy bind after 3...Bg7 4.d4 cxd4. But as mentioned, Black has different 4th moves to avoid it (Qa5, d6, ...).

Option 2: As suggested by TN, 3.d4 cxd4 4.Qxd4 is very interesting. In addition, you just need to know 3.d4 Bg7 4.dxc5 that you already play.

Option 3: You could try 3.h4!?, which is not as silly as it looks. There is an interesting 10 pages articles about this move (a White repertoire) in SOS 6 by Donaldson and Silman, two Accelerated Dragon specialists.

In my opinion, the 3 options give equivalent theoretical chances of getting a small advantage for White. They lead to different play however, and you should play the one which suits your taste best.

For OTB chess, you should also consider your other choices against the Sicilian. You mentioned playing  1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+. If you play 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5, your only chance to reach the Accelerated Dragon is through the 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 move order. I would thus reject this option (3.c4), because it requires a lot of theoretical work: the Accelerated Dragon and black's 4th move deviations. I would definitively try option 2 or 3, each requiring relatively limited theoretical work. On the other hand, if you play 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 (or the unconventional 3.c4 g6 4.d4), I would consider option 1, because you just need to work on black's 4th move deviations.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #10 - 08/02/10 at 03:37:44
Post Tools
I also second the 3.c4 suggestion, but for the sake of variety, I suggest 3.d4 cd4 4.Qd4 as being a good alternative. The 4...Nf6 5.e5 Nc6 6.Qa4 Nd5 7.Qb3!? sideline has always seemed more pleasant for White. I used to think that 7.Qe4 was also better for White, but after 7...Ndb4 8.Bb5 a6! as covered in Yearbook 95 Black should equalise.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 378
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #9 - 08/01/10 at 12:50:10
Post Tools
Randomeister wrote on 08/01/10 at 07:12:45:
Fromper wrote on 08/01/10 at 06:03:56:
So silly question from an Open Sicilian newbie, but isn't the whole point of d6 in the normal, "un-accelerated" Dragon that black wants to be able to play Nf6 without worrying about white pushing e5?

That's correct, but after the move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.e5 Black has the nasty 5...Qa5+ and picks up the pawn. But if White takes his time to play 5.Nc3 to prepare this (and defend e4), Black will play 5...d6.

...which takes us back to the normal Dragon, which is what I wanted to avoid in the first place.

Ahh... this is what I get for asking questions without actually looking at the position on a board. I miss the obvious queen fork. This is why I don't play blindfold (yet!). I can learn concepts and move of opening lines from reading explanations without looking, but without an actual board in front of me, I'll miss anything that isn't explicitly pointed out.

  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Randomeister
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


1...Nf6 against everything!

Posts: 6
Location: Lund, Sweden
Joined: 07/29/10
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #8 - 08/01/10 at 07:12:45
Post Tools
Fromper wrote on 08/01/10 at 06:03:56:
So silly question from an Open Sicilian newbie, but isn't the whole point of d6 in the normal, "un-accelerated" Dragon that black wants to be able to play Nf6 without worrying about white pushing e5?

That's correct, but after the move order 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.e5 Black has the nasty 5...Qa5+ and picks up the pawn. But if White takes his time to play 5.Nc3 to prepare this (and defend e4), Black will play 5...d6.

...which takes us back to the normal Dragon, which is what I wanted to avoid in the first place.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fromper
Senior Member
****
Offline


GrandPatzer

Posts: 378
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 03/12/10
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #7 - 08/01/10 at 06:03:56
Post Tools
So silly question from an Open Sicilian newbie, but isn't the whole point of d6 in the normal, "un-accelerated" Dragon that black wants to be able to play Nf6 without worrying about white pushing e5?

  

GrandPatzer!!!

1777 peak USCF rating - currently 1620 from coming back rusty
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #6 - 07/31/10 at 17:24:34
Post Tools
The sicilian acc dragon by Nielsen/Hansen also covers 4..Na6 btw
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Randomeister
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


1...Nf6 against everything!

Posts: 6
Location: Lund, Sweden
Joined: 07/29/10
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #5 - 07/31/10 at 09:18:53
Post Tools
Yes, I see! Opening for White according to Kramnik vol 3 has those variations, with the move order BPaulsen mentions. Is there anything in IM Greets Starting out...? Or is that book just for Black?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #4 - 07/31/10 at 08:58:57
Post Tools
I suggest you study one of the volumes in the Khalifman/Kramnik series (dont remember the exact volume).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BPaulsen
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love Light Squares!

Posts: 1702
Location: Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined: 11/02/08
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #3 - 07/31/10 at 07:39:01
Post Tools
I'll second 3. c4. I reach the same position via 1. Nf3 c5 2. c4 g6 3. e4, and it leads to standard Maroczy Binds or related sidelines without any tricky transpositions at black's disposal.
  

2288 USCF, 2186 FIDE.

FIDE based on just 27 games.
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
Randomeister
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


1...Nf6 against everything!

Posts: 6
Location: Lund, Sweden
Joined: 07/29/10
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #2 - 07/31/10 at 07:24:25
Post Tools
Thanks for your reply, Viking!

I actually haven't come across anyone playing 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 Bg7 against me so far, but my repertoir contains 4.dxc5.

But yes, the two variations you mention do transpose! Perhaps 3.c4 is the most logical way to change my repertoir. If Black proceeds with 3...Bg7 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 I'm back in familiar Accelerated Dragon Maroczy waters, unless Black plays 5...Qb6.

How dangerous for White are these variations:
  • 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.d4 Qb6
  • 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.d4 Qa5+
  • 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Qb6
I have no experience from them, although I realize the last one I could have entered even with my old repertoir. What's a good source of information on these variations? I'm big on reading books...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Viking
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 673
Location: Norway
Joined: 10/12/04
Gender: Male
Re: Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
Reply #1 - 07/30/10 at 19:56:01
Post Tools
to me 3.c4 seams the most logical solution.

What do you play against 3..Bg7 in the HA?
If 4.c4 then you are probably already ready for 4..Qb6 which may transpose.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Randomeister
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


1...Nf6 against everything!

Posts: 6
Location: Lund, Sweden
Joined: 07/29/10
Gender: Male
Missing Maroczy against Hyper Accelerated
07/30/10 at 18:28:05
Post Tools
OK, time for my first post here! It's been great reading for a bit, but I feel like joining the fun!

I have a repertoir problem for White against the Dragons. I feel like I'm move-ordered by a certain (admittedly pretty unusual) move order in the Hyper Accelerated.
  • Against the normal Dragon 2...d6 I play the Moscow: 3.Bb5+
  • Against the Accelerated, I use a Maroczy setup with 5.c4
  • Against the Hyper Accelerated, I do the normal thing, and if Black does too, I end up in a Maroczy as well, e.g. 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 g6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Bg7 5.c4 etc, invariably transposing to my repertoir against Accelerated.
Now, Black has sometimes played 4...Nf6 against me in the Hyper Accelerated. I don't seem to find this move order in many recommendations, and this is fair, it's slightly strange. The problem is, I need to defend e4, and 5.Nc3 is a pretty obvious way. But if Black then continues 5...d6 we're in "normal" Dragon territory, something I wanted to avoid by playing the Moscow.

How can I fix this? Do I need to play 3.c4 against HA, and start reading up on 3...Qb6 and 3...Qa5+ as well? Or start adopting 4.Qxd4 to enforce the Maroczy? There's also the slightly off-beat 5.f3 in my Database, how does that stack up?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo