ChessPub Forum - Svidler's Grunfeld

MaSu YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 28 Joined: 11/01/08	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #22 - 05/21/11 at 18:50:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	why dont play white the 12.f4 line? what is blacks best response? 12.--Bg4 13.f5-cxd4 14.Bxf7!+-Kxf7 15.Qb3+-Ke8 16.Qg8+-Kd7 17.Qe6+-Ke8 18.cxd4-Bf6 19.e5-Bxe5 20.dxe5-Qxe5 21.Qg8+Kd7 22.Qb3-Bxe2 23.Qxb7-Qc7 24.Rfd1+-Bxd1 25.Rxd1-Ke8 26.Qxc7-Rxd1 27.Kf2- and I think white has good winning chances.


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MaSu YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 28 Joined: 11/01/08	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #21 - 05/21/11 at 18:38:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	varggrav wrote on 10/07/10 at 11:31:23: I had a recent OTB game that went 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8.Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 O-O 10. O-O Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4 Be5 13. Bxe5 Nxe5 14. Bb3 Ng4 15. Ng3 h5!? 16. h3 h4 * and I quickly got a bad position as White, but I have a feeling white should be able to get a signifigant advantage. Any thoughts? Hi, i checked it with Fritz and he would play: 17.hxg4-hxg3 18.Qf3-gxf2+ 19.Qxf2-Rf8 20.Qh4!-c4 21. Rf3!-Bxg4! 22.Qxg4-cxb3 23.axb3 and 0,6 advantage for white.


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varggrav YaBB Newbies Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 19 Joined: 06/09/10	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #20 - 10/07/10 at 11:31:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	I had a recent OTB game that went 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8.Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 O-O 10. O-O Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4 Be5 13. Bxe5 Nxe5 14. Bb3 Ng4 15. Ng3 h5!? 16. h3 h4 * and I quickly got a bad position as White, but I have a feeling white should be able to get a signifigant advantage. Any thoughts?


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gewgaw God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 687 Location: europe Joined: 09/09/04	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #19 - 08/15/10 at 11:13:13	Post Tools	Print Post
	1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 O-O 10. O-O Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4 Be5 13. Bxe5 Nxe5 14. Bb3 b5 15. Qd2 (15. f4) (15. h3) (15. f3) 15... c4 ( 15... a5 16. Qf4) (15... Nc4 16. Qg5) 16. Bc2 Ng4 17. Ng3 Rb8 Lots of crazy stuff, but I´ve the feeling white is always slightly better, because black has no concrete plan.

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Fllg God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 647 Joined: 05/30/09 Gender:	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #18 - 08/15/10 at 10:29:48	Post Tools	Print Post
	Isn´t Black just lost after 24.Re8+ Kg7 25.Rd1 Bg4 26.Rxa8 Bxd1 27.Kf1 ?


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F22

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Re: Svidler's Grunfeld
Reply #17 - 08/15/10 at 09:39:56

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On Saturday, August 14th Fabiano Caruana and Peter Svidler continued their theoretical discussion in Grunfeld. The game started with: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 O-O 10. O-O Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4:

Svidler avoided 12. ... Qd7 again and opted for 12. ... Be5. The game went as follows: 13. Bxe5 Nxe5 14. Bb3 Ng4 15. Ng3 Qf4 16. Qe1N From official website's report: "a strong novelty he had found two months ago. As his second Boris Avrukh said admiringly, ‘No engine suggests this move’." 16. ... Nf6 17. e5 Nd5 18. Bxd5 Rxd5 19. c4 Rd8 20. d5 b5 21. Qa5 Bd7 22. Rfe1 Be8 23. cxb5 Rxd5 24. b6 Rd2 25. Ne4 Rb2 26. Qxc5 Rxb6 27. Qxe7 Bc6 28. Nf6+ Kg7 29. Rf1 h6 30. Rc3 Rab8 31. Qc5 Ra6 32. Qd6 Rbb6 33. Re3 Rxa2 34. Nh5+ gxh5 35. Rg3+ Qxg3 36. Qf6+ Kg8 37. hxg3 Be4 38. Qd8+ Kh7 39. Rc1 Bf5 40. Rc7 Be6 41. Rxa7 Rxa7 42. Qxb6 Ra4 43. Qb1+ Kg7 44. f4 Ra5 45. Qd1 [1-0]

I don't have access to an engine right now but I was wondering how bad is the following attempt to save Black: 19. ... Rxd4 20. Ne2 Qxe5 21. Nxd4 Qxe1 22. Rfxe1 cxd4 23. Rxe7 d3:

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Ametanoitos God Member Offline The road to success is under construction Posts: 1427 Location: Patras Joined: 01/04/05	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #16 - 08/09/10 at 20:14:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	We just dont talk about 10...Na5 I started with 10...Bd7 and the interest came about the 10...Qc7 line


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gewgaw God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 687 Location: europe Joined: 09/09/04	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #15 - 08/09/10 at 17:45:11	Post Tools	Print Post
	Is 10. ... Na5 refuted, I thought this was the hottest line lately?!

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Ametanoitos God Member Offline The road to success is under construction Posts: 1427 Location: Patras Joined: 01/04/05	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #14 - 08/09/10 at 11:40:28	Post Tools	Print Post
	OK, but nobody tries to answer my question. 12.Qd2 indeed looks like a critical try. 12...Qa5 was recommended as the safe way for Black (leading to equality) and 12...a6 as the more ambitious one (leading to unclear positions). I have shared some analysis on 12...a6 which would be my choice for now. I ask for your opinion about my recommended lines and about 12...Qa5 or 12...a6 as a choice you prefer.


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Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #13 - 08/09/10 at 00:22:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	Just a word on Flear's writing style: First of all, I really enjoy reading him. He tends to equivocate more than most authors. He likes to say that something seems better, or appears to be better. He rarely comes right out and says that something is better. So, if he says that something appears promising or that perhaps 10.Qd2 is best, I think we can accept that Flear recommends it. At least in this edition. He leaves open whether it is his final answer.


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LeeRoth God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 1520 Joined: 10/22/05	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #12 - 08/07/10 at 15:54:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	Ametanoitos wrote on 08/07/10 at 11:13:22: Quote: After 12.Qd2 Qa5 13.Rfd1 Sakaev gives Ne5! as best. Based on what variations Flear believes that White can gain something after 12.Qd2? And what is Black's best: 12...a6 or 12...Qa5? In the face of White not making much progress with Bf4, he says simply that perhaps 12.Qd2 is best. I don't know if this was meant to say that Qd2 actually is best or that White can gain something. He doesn't give any variations, but this is an old and well-played line, so you can look it up and judge for yourself.


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Ametanoitos God Member Offline The road to success is under construction Posts: 1427 Location: Patras Joined: 01/04/05	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #11 - 08/07/10 at 11:13:22	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: After 12.Qd2 Qa5 13.Rfd1 Sakaev gives Ne5! as best. Based on what variations Flear believes that White can gain something after 12.Qd2? And what is Black's best: 12...a6 or 12...Qa5?


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10756 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #10 - 08/07/10 at 11:07:10	Post Tools	Print Post
	10..Qc7 11.Rc1 Rd8 12.Bf4 Be5 13.Bxe5 Nxe5 14.Bb3 Ng4 15.Ng3 Qg4 16.h3 Ne5 17.Bd5 (I can't see anything wrong with 17.Bc2 Bxh3 indeed) Nd7 18.Rb1 again and if 18..Nb6 19.dxc5 Nxd5 and now the cute 20.c4. But Black instead plays 18..cxd4 19.cxd4 e6 18.Rb1 (18.Ne2 Qh4!? - ah, only now I see Amet has mentioned this as well) cxd4 (18...Rb8 is a tougher nut to crack indeed; perhaps the ugly 19.dxc5 as after Qc7 20.Qa4 Black's Bc8 still remains passive) 19.cxd4 e6 20.Bb3 Nc5 21.Bc2 and I think White is still a bit better, mainly because Bc8 and Ra8 are passive. After 12.Qd2 Qa5 13.Rfd1 Sakaev gives Ne5! as best.

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Ametanoitos God Member Offline The road to success is under construction Posts: 1427 Location: Patras Joined: 01/04/05	Re: Svidler's Grunfeld Reply #9 - 08/07/10 at 09:45:33	Post Tools	Print Post
	The idea of 10...Bd7 is to continue development! A bonus idea is that after d5 Ne5 (tempo on the Bc4) Black then plays Qa5+Qa6+Bb5 In the 10...Qc7 11.Rc1 Rd8 (11...Na5 doesn't seem to bad to me either) 12.Bf4 Be5 (12...Qd7 13.dxc5 Ne5! is OK for Black acording to Watson) 13.Bxe5 Nxe5 14.Bb3 Ng4 15.Ng3 Qf4 16.h3 Ne5 17.Bc2? and now what is wrong with the immediate 17...Bxh3? this looks strong to me. LeeRoth's 17.Bd5 is certainly an improvement but after 17...Nd7! 18.Ne2 (after 18.Rb1 Rb8! is also good as it seems) i would play now 18...Qh4! which seems a much more influential square for the Queen keeping an eye on e4 pawn and threatening ...Nf6 (or after 19.Qc2? Nb6!) or ...e6 with fine play. Let's go now to the 12.Qd2 variation. Now the solution is supposed to be 12...Qa5! with the idea ...cxd4 and exchanging the Queens. If White plays something like 13.Qb2?! b6! seems strong and the typical 14.dxc5? Ne5 is already slightly better for Black. After 13.Rfd1 NCO gives 13...cxd4 14.cxd4 Qxd2 15.Rxd2 e6= but i'm not so sure if this is easy equality. Maybe 16.d5!? Another line by NCO is 13...Bd7 (13...b5 may be another idea?) 14.Bh6 (14.Qb2!? has to be analysed also) cxd4 15.Bxg7 Kxg7 16.Qf4 Be8! (safest imo) 17.cxd4 e5= which looks OK. Watson gives 12...a6 instead ("if Black wants to go for more") with two variations. In the first one White plays 13.Bh6 b5 14.Bxg7! Kxg7 15.Bd3 Qd7 16.d5 with Watson stopping here without an assesment (he says that the whole line is unclear at the end of the analysis of the whole 12.Qd2 a6 variation). I cannot understand the move 15...Qd7. To me much more natural is 15...Bb7! and if 16.d5 Ne5 17.c4 e6! Maybe i'm wrong but it seems to me that Black is fine here. The other line is 13.f4 b5 14.Bd3 f5 ("!") 15.exf5 c4 16.Bb1? gxf5! etc with excellent play for Black. Watson proposes 16.Be4! gxf5 17.Bf3 with Ng3-Nh5 which indeed seems strong! But my question is: cannot Black avoid that by playing first 14...c4! 15.Bb1 f5! transposing to the first variation which is fine for Black? The whole line with 10...Qc7 seems now to me much more interesting. Another fact is that Svidler switched to the 10...Qc7 after playing 10...Bd7 for some years.


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Re: Svidler's Grunfeld
Reply #8 - 08/07/10 at 07:55:29

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I am not very knowledgeable about Gruenfeld but I wanted to point out three games of Svidler playing the Black side of: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8. Ne2 Nc6 9. Be3 O-O 10. O-O Qc7 11. Rc1 Rd8 12. Bf4:

In chronological order:

12. ... Qd7 13. d5 Na5 14. Bd3 b5 15. Rb1 a6 16. c4 e6 17. Bg5 Re8 18. Qd2 Nxc4 19. Bxc4 bxc4 20. d6 Bb7 21. Qe3 f6 22. Bh4 g5 23. Bg3 f5 24. Qxg5 Bxe4 25. Rb6 Qd8 26. Qxd8 Raxd8 27. Rd1 Rd7 28. f3 Bc2 29. Re1 Bd3 30. Rxa6 c3 31. Ra3 Bxe2 32. Rxe2 Rb8 33. Rb3 Rxb3 34. axb3 Kf7 35. Kf1 Rb7 36. Ra2 Bf6 37. Ke2 c4 38. b4 Rxb4 39. Ra7+ Kg6 40. Rc7 c2 41. Kd2 f4 42. Be1 Rb1 43. Rxc4 Rd1+ 44. Kxc2 Rxe1 45. Rxf4 Re2+ 46. Kd3 Re5 47. Rg4+ Kf7 48. Ra4 Rd5+ 49. Ke3 Rxd6 50. Ra7+ Kg6 51. Kf4 Rd4+ 52. Kg3 Bh4+ 53. Kh3 Bf2 54. g3 Rh4+ 55. Kxh4 Bxa7 56. Kh3 Kf5 57. Kg2 Be3 58. Kh3 Ke5 59. Kg4 Bg1 60. h4 Bf2 61. h5 h6 [0-1] V. Topalov - P. Svidler, MTel Masters 2006, (17/05/06).
12. ... e5 13. Bg5 Rd6 14. Bd5 cxd4 15. cxd4 Be6 16. Bb3 exd4 17. Bf4 Re8 18. Bxe6 Rexe6 19. Bxd6 Qxd6 20. Qd3 Qe7 21. Rb1 Nb4 22. Qa3 Bf8 23. Qxa7 d3 24. Nc3 Qf6 25. Nd5 Nxd5 26. exd5 Re2 27. Qxb7 Qd4 28. Rbd1 d2 29. Qa6 Re5 30. Qf6 Bg7 31. Qd8+ Bf8 32. Qf6 Bg7 33. Qd8+ [½-½] F. Caruana - P. Svidler, 17th European Team Championship, (24/10/09).
12. ... Be5 13. Bg3 Bxg3 14. hxg3 e5 15. Bd5 Be6 16. dxe5 Bxd5 17. exd5 Nxe5 18. c4 a6 19. Re1 b5 20. cxb5 axb5 21. Nc3 c4 22. Qd4 Nd3 23. Ne4 Qa7 24. Nf6+ Kh8 25. Qh4 Kg7 26. Re3 Rd6 27. Rf3 h6 28. Ne4 Rxd5 29. Qf6+ Kg8 30. Rc3 Ne5 31. Rf4 Qxa2 32. Kh2 Qe2 33. Qh4 Ra6 34. g4 g5 35. Nxg5 hxg5 36. Qxg5+ Rg6 [0-1] A. Shirov - P. Svidler, 2009 World Cup, (30/11/09).

Svidler's success against Topalov and Sakaev's book both indicate that after 12. ... Qd7 Black should be fine. But Svidler has not repeated it in a classical game.

Is 10. ... Bd7 the Svidler variation? On the surface it looks bad: Black reduces the pressure on d4, leaves b7 undefended and in all likelihood has to move the bishop again. So I am wondering what is the idea behind it?

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