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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Play the London System (Read 22932 times)
saubhikr
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #27 - 12/15/11 at 18:56:19
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I think Eric should publish a full blown book or DVD on London. It will be fantastic to get 90 games annotaed by him in one go if it is a book.
  
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fling
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #26 - 12/07/11 at 09:27:57
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HoemberChess wrote on 12/07/11 at 08:49:43:
Paul123 wrote on 01/15/11 at 18:05:52:
Seth_Xoma wrote on 08/19/10 at 05:28:53:
By Cyrus Lakdawala is now out. Anybody have it? And would they care to share a review?  Smiley



Actually... IMO its pretty good. Although it doesn't cover lines as in depth as Johnsen/Kovacevic book. What I think it does better is gives ideas on how to play the resulting positions. IMO the whole reason to play systems is to be familiar with the various positions reached. If one has reached a position and is clueless as to what is going on...then the whole reason for playing a system was squandered ....  So in this respect I think Lakdawala book is more useful to the average joe. 

However, I think it would be best to own a copy of both...


I am reading the book, and like it very much.
I am going to try the London in the next open tournament and this is just the book I need to have confidence in my position, thanks to the explanatory text, which gives plans and instructions for the entire game, not only the opening.


I haven't spend much time with the book, but was thinking of having at look at both that one and Johnsen/Kovacevic's book. However, I wonder if Eric Prié shouldn't publish a best-of Chesspub on London  Wink ?
  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #25 - 12/07/11 at 08:49:43
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Paul123 wrote on 01/15/11 at 18:05:52:
Seth_Xoma wrote on 08/19/10 at 05:28:53:
By Cyrus Lakdawala is now out. Anybody have it? And would they care to share a review?  Smiley



Actually... IMO its pretty good. Although it doesn't cover lines as in depth as Johnsen/Kovacevic book. What I think it does better is gives ideas on how to play the resulting positions. IMO the whole reason to play systems is to be familiar with the various positions reached. If one has reached a position and is clueless as to what is going on...then the whole reason for playing a system was squandered ....  So in this respect I think Lakdawala book is more useful to the average joe. 

However, I think it would be best to own a copy of both...


I am reading the book, and like it very much.
I am going to try the London in the next open tournament and this is just the book I need to have confidence in my position, thanks to the explanatory text, which gives plans and instructions for the entire game, not only the opening.
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Paul123
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #24 - 01/25/11 at 03:41:59
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OldGrizzly wrote on 01/20/11 at 11:42:27:
gewgaw: Where can we find your Line A examination mentioned in reply #17?



I think he referring to the game A.Yusupov-V.Topalov, Las
Palmas 1993. where my Rybka has the game about even as late as move 40! It was a slugfest.  It ended at move 50  0-1

It comes down to what he considers busted.

Its true here.... "Black does equalizes in this line."  Yet... as the game  demonstrates : this  line becomes a "maneuvering struggle" 

If your about concrete evaluations and seeking an advantage out of the opening .... obviously the London is not for you. Having said that... I'm not sure  people who play systems seriously don't do the same.... i.e. IMO they just approach the game differently (by seeking an advantage through different means other than the "opening phase")


 



  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #23 - 01/20/11 at 11:42:27
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gewgaw: Where can we find your Line A examination mentioned in reply #17?
  
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Paul123
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #22 - 01/15/11 at 18:05:52
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 08/19/10 at 05:28:53:
By Cyrus Lakdawala is now out. Anybody have it? And would they care to share a review?  Smiley



Actually... IMO its pretty good. Although it doesn't cover lines as in depth as Johnsen/Kovacevic book. What I think it does better is gives ideas on how to play the resulting positions. IMO the whole reason to play systems is to be familiar with the various positions reached. If one has reached a position and is clueless as to what is going on...then the whole reason for playing a system was squandered ....  So in this respect I think Lakdawala book is more useful to the average joe. 

However, I think it would be best to own a copy of both...
  
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GMEricPrie
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #21 - 11/01/10 at 22:44:43
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It is a long story...that I will reserve to my dearer readers in any case  Lips Sealed
Part1 -I know, boss, I am late again- expected soon.
You can also get a hint by looking at my games Cool
  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #20 - 11/01/10 at 18:50:19
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GMEricPrie wrote on 11/01/10 at 17:54:50:
5.h3 at this stage is a common mistake...


Can you explain why?  Wink Roll Eyes
  

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GMEricPrie
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #19 - 11/01/10 at 17:54:50
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5.h3 at this stage is a common mistake...
  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #18 - 11/01/10 at 15:47:38
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I don't think it's news that Black has ways to equalize against the London; Yusupov-Topalov is one of the equalizing lines in ECO, for example.   
  
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gewgaw
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #17 - 11/01/10 at 15:11:56
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Isn´t the London System busted in some way?

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bf4 Bg7 4. e3 d6 5. h3 O-O 6. Be2 c5 7. O-O {White
temporarily ignores Black's positional threat.} Qb6 8. Nbd2 {Now the b2-pawn
is defended tactically, as we shall see below, but this is not the end of the
story. Indeed, after Black's reply (8...Be6), White is forced to go in for an
adventure with 9 Ng5 in order to defend the pawn, but then Black can begin
play in the centre.  White's alternatives fare no better:} ({a) The knight is
not very well placed after} 8. Na3 {and now} Be6 9. Nc4 Qc7 {is pretty stable
and quite reasonable,} ({but} 9... Bxc4 $5 {is more critical. Following} 10.
Bxc4 Qxb2 11. Rb1 (11. dxc5 {was played in V.Burmakin-Turov, St Petersburg
1998, and now} Qb4 12. Qe2 Qxc5 {leaves Black better too}) 11... Qc3 {Black
has the advantage.})) ({b)} 8. Qc1 Nc6 9. c3 Be6 10. Nbd2 {transposes to Line
A.}) ({c)} 8. Nc3 $6 cxd4 9. exd4 Qxb2 10. Nb5 Nc6 {is just good for Black.})
8... Be6 $1 ({Please do not fall for} 8... Qxb2 $2 9. Nc4 Qb4 10. c3 $1 Qb5 ({
or} 10... Qxc3 11. Rc1 Qb4 12. Rb1 Qc3 13. Rb3 {, winning the queen}) 11. Nxd6
{when the exchange of pawns that has taken place definitely isn't in Black's
favour!}) 9. Ng5 ({Defending the pawn with} 9. b3 {would be criminal; apart
from the weaknesses created, it is not clear how White will answer} Nd5 $1 {.})
({Instead} 9. Qc1 Nc6 10. c3 Rac8 {would lead us back to the difficult
position for White which we examined in Line A.}) 9... Bd7 10. Nc4 Qc7 {Black
is now ready to kick back both white knights with ...h6 and ...b5. This
indicates a quick queenside attack, although play in the centre with ...e5 is
also an option.} 11. c3 (11. a4 {prevents ...b5 and with it ...e5 for the
moment. In that case, a reasonable set-up for Black is to activate the
light-squared bishop with} b6 12. c3 Bc6 {, followed by ...Nd7 and a powerful .
..e5 break.}) 11... h6 12. Nf3 b6 ({Unfortunately Black must refrain from}
12... b5 $6 {because of the strong retort} 13. dxc5 $1 Qxc5 14. Nxd6 $1 {.})
13. Bd3 (13. a4 Bc6 14. a5 Nbd7 {is fine for Black.}) 13... Qb7 ({Black
strengthens his control over e4, although} 13... Bc6 {, intending ...Nd7, ...
Rfe8 and ...e5, is also possible.}) 14. Re1 Bc6 15. Ncd2 Ne4 16. Nxe4 Bxe4 17.
Qe2 Nd7 {Black had no reason to complain here in A.Yusupov-V.Topalov, Las
Palmas 1993, especially as the ...e5 break will not be long in coming.} *

  

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MNb
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #16 - 10/26/10 at 19:15:09
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+= after 14.Nc3 looks like wishful thinking to me. Black played 14...Qh5 and White found nothing better than 15.Qe2. All dangers of a mating attack are gone. Black's halfopen f-file is very useful.
A more ambitious option might be 7...Nc6 8.gxf5 Nb4 idea 9.fxe6 Nfd5 10.Bh2 Nxd3+ 11.Qxd3 Bxe6 with compensation.
  

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Re: Play the London System
Reply #15 - 10/26/10 at 13:05:54
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I must admit I haven't looked very carefully at it either, which may well be why I've gotten into trouble against it! I've often tried a queenside fianchetto, but I think I prefer the standard d6-e5 plan as in the game you mention - Black is quicker with his central play there.

According to mye database, Granados Gomez-Vega Holm went 1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 3. Nc3 e6 4. Nf3 Be7 5. Bf4 d6 6. h3 O-O 7. e3 Qe8 8. Qc2 Nc6 9. g4?! Bd8 10. gxf5 e5! 11. dxe5 dxe5 12. Bg5? Qh5 13. Be2 e4 and White was in trouble.

He could have avoided most of his problems with 9.a3 Bd8 10.0-0-0, but Black gets ...e5 in and should be OK. 9.0-0-0?! Nb4 on the other hand is annoying for White - maybe an argument for playing with c3/Nbd2 instead of c4/Nc3. I think White was right to delay developing the Bf1 - it's not clear if it is better on d3, e2, g2 or even h3 later.

Edit: Johnsen in "Win with the London System" recommends the h3-g4 plans but with an early Bd3. One example: Ovsejevitsch - M.Manakova, 1994: 1. Nf3 f5 2. d4 Nf6 3. Bf4 e6 4. e3 Be7 5. Bd3 O-O 6. h3 d6 7. g4 Nd5 8. Bh2 Bh4 9. Qe2 Nb4 10. Nxh4 Nxd3+ 11. Qxd3 Qxh4 12. Bg3 Qh6 13. gxf5 Rxf5 14. Nc3 "+/=". I don't think this is too worrying for Black; he also has several alternatives to 8...Bh4.
« Last Edit: 10/26/10 at 14:57:57 by Stigma »  

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MNb
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #14 - 10/26/10 at 12:14:33
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You mean something like Granados Gomez-Vega Holm, ESPchT 2002 ? I must admit that I have never looked seriously at this (nor in the versions with c3 and Nbd2). If you are right - a possibility I don't exclude - Black should play an early queenside fianchetto.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #13 - 10/26/10 at 12:08:14
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MNb wrote on 10/26/10 at 11:57:54:
Or in this case 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.Bf4 Nf6 4.e3 Be7 5.h3 0-0 6.Bd3 d6.
The reason why I think the London is dubious here is that Black prepares ...e6-e5 followed by a kingside attack. The typical London moves Bf4 and h3 help Black.

The results of the London vs. the Leningrad have even been lamer in practice.


I'm not so sure. In this kind of position the most dangerous plan I've faced (as Black) is to use the h3 move as preparation for g2-g4! played as a sacrifice, or even with Rg1 first. The bishop may be on d3 or e2 (not sure which is more accurate), and of course White castles queenside. Yes there will be a kingside attack, but on the Black king, not the White one...
  

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Re: Play the London System
Reply #12 - 10/26/10 at 11:57:54
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Or in this case 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.Bf4 Nf6 4.e3 Be7 5.h3 0-0 6.Bd3 d6.
The reason why I think the London is dubious here is that Black prepares ...e6-e5 followed by a kingside attack. The typical London moves Bf4 and h3 help Black.

The results of the London vs. the Leningrad have even been lamer in practice.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #11 - 10/26/10 at 05:19:34
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XChess1971 wrote on 10/26/10 at 04:49:40:
MNb wrote on 10/23/10 at 13:55:26:
Bowen wrote on 10/23/10 at 03:53:13:
so why would it not be better, with White, up a tempo!!

Because it doesn't work against every black setup. I strongly recommend against playing the London and the KIA against the Dutch Leningrad and Iljin-Zjenevsky setup.


Which one is the Iljin-Zjenevsky setup?


1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 e6 4.Nf3 Be7 5.0-0 0-0 6.c4 d6.
  

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Re: Play the London System
Reply #10 - 10/26/10 at 04:49:40
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MNb wrote on 10/23/10 at 13:55:26:
Bowen wrote on 10/23/10 at 03:53:13:
so why would it not be better, with White, up a tempo!!

Because it doesn't work against every black setup. I strongly recommend against playing the London and the KIA against the Dutch Leningrad and Iljin-Zjenevsky setup.


Which one is the Iljin-Zjenevsky setup?
  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #9 - 10/25/10 at 22:08:27
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The link at ICC to the interview with Lakdawala points to an interview with Kaufman for some reason. This link works, but I'm not sure if it's available to non-members or not.

https://webcast.chessclub.com/icc/i/Watson/2010_09_28/Watson_Chesstalk.html
  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #8 - 10/23/10 at 13:55:26
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Bowen wrote on 10/23/10 at 03:53:13:
so why would it not be better, with White, up a tempo!!

Because it doesn't work against every black setup. I strongly recommend against playing the London and the KIA against the Dutch Leningrad and Iljin-Zjenevsky setup.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #7 - 10/23/10 at 03:53:13
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katar wrote on 10/21/10 at 23:41:01:
Hey!  Two new reviews that i found:

One conventional review by a master:
http://www.chessville.com/reviews/PlaytheLondonSystem.htm

And another off-color review by a patzer:
http://katar.weebly.com/2/post/2010/10/review-play-the-london-system.html


Not pointed out in either review is the author's realization that as a player, in the neighbourhood of his 50th birthday, Cyrus has trouble remembering and keeping up with, long lines of cutting edge analysis. For him he avoids this by playing the solid London System where it is easier to play ideas and pawn structures as opposed to wild, tactical innovations on move 20 in some popular, well-analyzed opening. He also accepts that he is not playing to win every game from move one (no King's Gambit here). For further insight into his adoption of this system and his philosophy behind it, check out John Watson's ICC interview with the author {and an exciting win with the London against GM Igor Ivanov (RIP)}.

A point Cyrus makes in his interview is that many players aim for a similar pawn structure, with Black, in the Slav...and are applauded for doing so...so why would it not be better, with White, up a tempo!!
  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #6 - 10/22/10 at 18:14:21
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It looks like a good addition to "Win with the London System," and Lakdawala's writing style is pretty entertaining from the intro I read.
  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #5 - 10/21/10 at 23:41:01
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Hey!  Two new reviews that i found:

One conventional review by a master:
http://www.chessville.com/reviews/PlaytheLondonSystem.htm

And another off-color review by a patzer:
http://katar.weebly.com/2/post/2010/10/review-play-the-london-system.html
  

2078 uscf
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #4 - 09/24/10 at 08:55:56
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Wouldn't a london system player be 'overjoyed' to reach a Slav exchange? Just the right sort of very dull, nearly equal/equal position Smiley
(and perhaps fractionally more of an edge than they deserve.).
  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #3 - 09/23/10 at 22:07:26
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As i have heard one good thing about this book is that the author try to give a solution to the 2...c5 problem. After 1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 c5 3.e3 cxd4! reaches a Caro Kann exchange and 3.c3 cxd4 reaches a Slav exchange! I have heard that the author gives a complete repertoir with the exchange Slav! Is is true? Does he offer something good there?
  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #2 - 08/30/10 at 18:25:45
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Hey, I Just picked this book up a few days ago. I haven't given it an in depth read yet, but i find the layout of the book more appealing than sverre's. The annotations of the games are fairly instructive.  I prefer the everyman layout with complete games rather than the tree layout. The author believes this system of play allows white freedom for expression, so there are a few games where unusual, novel ideas are tried.


If you already have the sverre's book then there is probably little point to purchasing this one unless you want to read 91 games concerning the london. As I said earlier, I rather like the layout and content of this book over sverre's.
  
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Re: Play the London System
Reply #1 - 08/22/10 at 21:57:35
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I don't own it, but I've had a good thumb through at the local bookshop. It looks like typical Everyman stuff really, lots of illustrative games

I certainly don't think that its an improvement on Johnsen/Kovacevic. In fact, of the two, I prefer the latter.
  
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Play the London System
08/19/10 at 05:28:53
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By Cyrus Lakdawala is now out. Anybody have it? And would they care to share a review?  Smiley
  
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