ChessPub Forum - C11: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3

(UTC)

Latest Updates:

Anti-Sicilians - 10 Dec French Defence - 08 Dec d-Pawn Specials - 08 Dec

ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › French › Classical › C11: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3

(Moderators: proustiskeen, Smyslov_Fan)

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Pages: 1

Topic Tools

C11: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3 (Read 5718 times)

dom God Member Offline Posts: 908 Location: Toulouse Joined: 01/11/03 Gender:	Re: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3 Reply #7 - 09/18/10 at 09:10:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	Ametanoitos wrote on 09/15/10 at 10:52:21: Dom, i cannot understand your last suggestion. First of all this is exactly the same line as 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 Qb6 8.Na4 Qa5 9.c3 cxd4 (9...b6! is better) 10.b4 Qc7?! 11.Nxd4 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 Be7 13.Bd3 when it is known what White has at least a small advantage (+=, NCO). OK Yes same line... Black can play 13...a5 but maybe assessment may be still += if White can keep his d4 square blockade

	“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.” - Groucho Marx
	IP Logged

MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2084 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3 Reply #6 - 09/15/10 at 13:28:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	Not sure about that. Yes the French can happily support all sorts of 'nonsense' like 3.. Nc6 But I do think the main lines are notably more logical, and you should probably at least try and learn how to play them before playing the slightly strange stuff.


	IP Logged

TN God Member Offline Posts: 3420 Joined: 11/07/08 Gender:	Re: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3 Reply #5 - 09/15/10 at 12:34:43	Post Tools	Print Post
	Glen_Rotten wrote on 09/05/10 at 15:21:53: hi First, I know there was a recent post that touched on this, but I hope nobody minds me putting both lines together here. I recently decided to give the French another go, having given up a few years ago due to always seeming to end up too passive against stronger players (maybe 1700 - 2100). I have tried the Winawer, but still can't get the hang of it - just can't seem to understand the positions! Does anyone play either of the lines below, and (if so) how do they do for you in practice - I quite like the look of them, but worry that there is a part from around move 10 to move 15 where Black has to play very precisely and that I may get hammered at this bit! One other thing, I noticed that someone mentioned in another post playing 6........ gxB, getting a weird-looking position - anyone play this and get good results? I am thinking of classical with 4 e5 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 e5 Nfd7 5 f4 c5 6 c3 Nc6 7 Be3 cxd4 8 Nxd4 Bc5 9 Qd2 and the Burn with 4 Bg5 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bg5 dxe4 5 Nxe4 Be7 6 Bxf6 Bxf6 7 Nf3 Nd7 8 Qd2 I suggest you try the Nimzowitsch French with 3...Nc6. From a theoretical viewpoint, White should keep a slight edge, but it's a line that will not only surprise many of your opponents, it will also be a reliable long-term weapon.

	All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
	IP Logged

Ametanoitos God Member Offline The road to success is under construction Posts: 1427 Location: Patras Joined: 01/04/05	Re: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3 Reply #4 - 09/15/10 at 10:52:21	Post Tools	Print Post
	Dom, i cannot understand your last suggestion. First of all this is exactly the same line as 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 Qb6 8.Na4 Qa5 9.c3 cxd4 (9...b6! is better) 10.b4 Qc7?! 11.Nxd4 Nxd4 12.Bxd4 Be7 13.Bd3 when it is known what White has at least a small advantage (+=, NCO). But in practice White has demonstated a HUGE advantage here. Especialy in corr chess Black has scored below 10%! If i continue your line a little bit, after 13...Bh4 14.g3 Be7 15.O-O a5 16.a3 O-O White can play for example 17.Qe2 with f5 in mind and can swing the a1 rook to the kingside via a2 to prepare a fierce attack.


	IP Logged

dom God Member Offline Posts: 908 Location: Toulouse Joined: 01/11/03 Gender:	Re: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3 Reply #3 - 09/06/10 at 20:00:39	Post Tools	Print Post
	Glen_Rotten wrote on 09/05/10 at 15:21:53: I am thinking of classical with 4 e5 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 e5 Nfd7 5 f4 c5 6 c3 Nc6 7 Be3 cxd4 8 Nxd4 Bc5 9 Qd2 with 6.Nf3 (instead of 6.c3) ... it is Boleslavsky line. and covered in excellent book "How to play against 1.e4" McDonald 2008 I just read last month in this book very good explanation for the alternate system 7...Be7!? I have one lost game with White in variation with ooo against good player (G.Valin) and no experience as Black but I did valuable work in these systems difficulty is the number of various systems White or Black can play: with oo or ooo for White ; with play on blockade square d4 or not ; early attack on b2 and so on for you to start, I advice you 7...Be7 as given by McDonald or 6...Qb6!? (delaying Nc6) one Korschnoi idea. 5.f4 c5 6.Be3 Qb6 7.Nf3 (what else ? if 7.Na4? Qa5+ 8.c3 cxd4 -/+) Be7 (7...Nc6 is main line ; 7...a6 8.a3 or 8.Rb1 ; 7..Qxb2 is risky 8.a3 ; 7...a6 8.a3 Nc6 9.Be2 Qa7 ) 8.Na4 Qa5+ 9.c3 Nxd4 10.Nxd4! Nc6 11.b4 Qc7 12.Bd3 (12.Nb5 Qb8 13.Bd3 g5) Nxd4 13.Bxd4 a5 14.a3 Bh4+ 15.g3 Be7 16.oo oo= Black has played his plan on the queenside and is in control of e5 (more difficult to play f5 for White)

	“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.” - Groucho Marx
	IP Logged

Gorath Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 259 Joined: 07/09/09	Re: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3 Reply #2 - 09/06/10 at 15:14:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	Morozevic used to play a weird (sub-)variation of 6. - gxf6, with good success. Dreev writes "the move 6...Bf6 is considered to be the more solid, but the line in the game is rather interesting as well" (My 100 Best Games, p. 76; game Anand - Dreev, candidates match 1991 (2)). The plus of gxf6 is that you get an unbalanced position which has been played by many GMs. It's unlikely to run into a simple refutation, while you've got something to work with (bishops pair, g-file, additional center pawn). This kind of position isn't everybody's cup of tea though.


	IP Logged

MartinC God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 2084 Joined: 07/24/06	Re: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3 Reply #1 - 09/06/10 at 08:57:51	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well there are of course an awful lot of database games to play through for both lines. iirc Bareev in various elite tournaments a few years back. Certainly so for the Bxf6 stuff. Should give a good feel for whether you like it or not if you play over the games. As I remember he mostly seemed to alternate between losing quickly (and nastily) and drawing So some risk of getting taken out early on, although no real reason it should happen too often. 6 .. gf I played once as black, didn't understand at all, and lost quite horribly. Suspect it takes some work to understand, but that likely goes for white too so it might be rewarded.


	IP Logged

Glen_Rotten YaBB Newbies Offline I love ChessPublishing.com! Posts: 20 Location: uk Joined: 04/23/05	C11: the non Winawer lines in Play the French 3 09/05/10 at 15:21:53	Post Tools	Print Post
	hi First, I know there was a recent post that touched on this, but I hope nobody minds me putting both lines together here. I recently decided to give the French another go, having given up a few years ago due to always seeming to end up too passive against stronger players (maybe 1700 - 2100). I have tried the Winawer, but still can't get the hang of it - just can't seem to understand the positions! Does anyone play either of the lines below, and (if so) how do they do for you in practice - I quite like the look of them, but worry that there is a part from around move 10 to move 15 where Black has to play very precisely and that I may get hammered at this bit! One other thing, I noticed that someone mentioned in another post playing 6........ gxB, getting a weird-looking position - anyone play this and get good results? I am thinking of classical with 4 e5 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 e5 Nfd7 5 f4 c5 6 c3 Nc6 7 Be3 cxd4 8 Nxd4 Bc5 9 Qd2 and the Burn with 4 Bg5 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bg5 dxe4 5 Nxe4 Be7 6 Bxf6 Bxf6 7 Nf3 Nd7 8 Qd2
	« Last Edit: 07/22/11 at 17:10:59 by dom »

	IP Logged

Pages: 1

Topic Tools

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Bookmarks:

« Board Index ‹ Board Top