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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) A First? (Read 18272 times)
battleangel
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Re: A First?
Reply #16 - 12/30/11 at 21:04:29
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will you have something against 1.c4 2.g3 with slow build up where white doesn't play d4, some pawn structure like d3 e4? Or the slow plan with pawns on e3,d3 and pawnstorm on queenside with b4-b5?

Can I combine this d4-repertoire with tiger's modern against 1.e4? Or can I get move-ordered out of this repertoire?
  
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Re: A First?
Reply #15 - 10/26/10 at 17:43:12
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Thanks everyone for your interest on the book. You correctly defined that it’s about 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6, and then to navigate Black away from the classical Old Indian (...Nbd7 and ...e5). Yes, it’s close to Vladimir Georgiev’s repertoire, and also played by GMs Volokitin, Efimenko, Glek, sometimes Morozevich, and Cherniaev too. The concept is that on one hand it offers a complete separate repertoire, and on the other hand King’s Indian players may use it as the flexible move order to avoid some undesirable systems.

Here is a brief Chapter outline:

Chapter 1 is devoted to the position on the cover: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 e4 (Cherniaev’s games against Korchnoi and Gormally will be there).
Chapter 2 analyses white’s deviations on the 4th move: 4.d5, 4.e4, the endgame after 4.dxe5, 4.e3, etc.
Chapter 3 is called ‘Preventing e2-e4 with …Bf5’. The main move order it is devoted to is 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6 3.Nf3 g6 4.Nc3 Bf5, but we also consider the ...Bf5 idea in a couple of other move orders, such as Janowski’s 3.Nc3 Bf5 (as alternative to 3...e5), …Bf5 ideas against fianchetto King’s Indian (as played by McShane), and also there’ll be probably the first publication about the Capablanca Variation 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d6 3.Nc3 Bf5!? (for those who don’t want to play the Pirc there).
Chapter 4 is there to justify the subheader “А repertoire for Black against 1.d4” and offers Black lines against any deviation White can play on the 2nd or 3rd move, such as Trompowsky (2.Bg5 or 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bg5), the London System 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bf4, fianchetto 2.Nf3 d6 3.g3, Veresov, Blackmar-Diemer etc.

Recently Alexander Cherniaev had some interesting analyses and conversations about this opening with experts on it, mostly during the latest Olympiad in Khanty-Mansiysk. He talked with Georgiev (who was optimistic about this opening) and Efimenko (less optimistic). Anna Muzychuk told him an interesting detail that it was she who showed this opening to Volokitin, and then he showed it to Glek. Alexander forgot to ask who showed it to Muzychuk to find the root. Also Alexander showed and discussed the variation with his friend Vlad Tkachiev. A bit earlier Alexander (as Karpov’s current assistant) presented this opening to Karpov and had some blitz games with it against the ex-World-Champion.

There are many unexplored paths in this opening, even within critical lines. So the book will contain a considerable amount of original analysis, with emphasis on the critical positions. The book is not finished yet, so you may offer here some questions, ideas and suggestions which might be reflected in the book.
-- 
Eduard Prokuronov
  
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Re: A First?
Reply #14 - 09/15/10 at 03:42:40
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THis book might be very interesting considering these two games of Cherniaev I found. also, he doesn't seem to play the old indian too much.

0-0-0 looks very aggressive!

[Event "Big Slick Tournament"]
[Site "London ENG"]
[Date "2009.06.27"]
[EventDate "2009.06.27"]
[Round "1"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[White "Daniel Gormally"]
[Black "Alexander Cherniaev"]
[ECO "A54"]
[WhiteElo "2487"]
[BlackElo "2423"]
[PlyCount "63"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 4. Nf3 e4 5. Ng5 Qe7 6. Qc2 Bf5
7. g4 Bg6 8. Bg2 Nc6 9. e3 O-O-O 10. h4 h6 11. h5 hxg5
12. hxg6 Rxh1+ 13. Bxh1 Nb4 14. Qa4 Nd3+ 15. Ke2 Qe6 16. f3 a6
17. Nxe4 Nxe4 18. fxe4 Nxc1+ 19. Rxc1 Qxg4+ 20. Bf3 Qg3 21. b4
g4 22. Bh1 Be7 23. Qd1 fxg6 24. Qg1 Qxg1 25. Rxg1 Rh8 26. Bg2
Bf6 27. a4 Rh2 28. Kf1 Bg5 29. Kf2 Bh4+ 30. Kf1 Bg5 31. Kf2
Bh4+ 32. Kf1 1/2-1/2


[Event "Howard Staunton Memorial"]
[Site "London ENG"]
[Date "2009.08.08"]
[EventDate "2009.08.08"]
[Round "1"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Viktor Korchnoi"]
[Black "Alexander Cherniaev"]
[ECO "A54"]
[WhiteElo "2561"]
[BlackElo "2428"]
[PlyCount "118"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d6 3. Nc3 e5 4. Nf3 e4 5. Nd2 Qe7 6. Nb3 c6
7. Bg5 Bf5 8. e3 Nbd7 9. h4 h6 10. Bf4 Qd8 11. Be2 h5 12. d5
c5 13. Nd2 a6 14. a4 Qe7 15. Qb3 Rb8 16. f3 exf3 17. gxf3 Ne5
18. e4 Bc8 19. Bg5 Qc7 20. Nf1 Nh7 21. Bf4 g6 22. Ne3 Bg7
23. Kd2 O-O 24. Rhg1 Re8 25. Rg2 Qe7 26. Bg3 Kh8 27. f4 Ng4
28. Bxg4 Bxg4 29. Nxg4 hxg4 30. Re1 b5 31. axb5 axb5 32. Nxb5
Nf6 33. Rge2 Nh5 34. e5 dxe5 35. fxe5 Rxb5 36. cxb5 c4 37. Qc3
Qc5 38. d6 Qxb5 39. Bh2 g3 40. Bg1 Rd8 41. Re4 Rxd6+ 42. Rd4
Rc6 43. Ree4 Kh7 44. Rd7 Ra6 45. Ra7 Qd5+ 46. Qd4 Qa5+ 47. Ke2
Rxa7 48. Qxa7 Qb5 49. Qb6 Qa4 50. Qd4 Qa1 51. Rg4 Bxe5
52. Qxc4 Qxb2+ 53. Kd3 Qb7 54. Re4 Qb1+ 55. Kd2 Bg7 56. Be3 g2
57. Rg4 Nf6 58. Rxg2 Ne4+ 59. Ke2 Nc3+ 0-1
  
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urusov
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Re: The Janowski Indian
Reply #13 - 09/11/10 at 22:50:16
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It is typically called The Janowski Indian -- though I found a Silman article in an old magazine where he suggested "Shirazi Indian."  And Tal played it some.  I have written about it here, with bibliography:
http://kenilworthian.blogspot.com/2005/11/tals-janowski-indian-games.html
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/summer05/tal.htm
The big downside is that there is essentially a forced drawing line after f3, well discussed in the literature.  But if you don't mind a draw as Black, then why not?

Also worth knowing is 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d6 3.Nc3 Bf5!? -- see here:
http://www.kenilworthchessclub.org/games/java/2006/janowski-A46.htm

Thanks for bringing The New Old Indian to my attention.
  
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TN
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Re: A First?
Reply #12 - 09/10/10 at 06:25:08
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/09/10 at 15:15:55:
TN wrote on 09/09/10 at 13:54:47:
Does anyone know if the authors will have a look at 3.Nc3/3.Nf3 Bf5? This variation is a good surprise weapon that has been employed by Georgiev, although White keeps a solid +=.



I'm unclear on the concept. 

Why would White even bother with a "surprise weapon" against the Old Indian?  Even Bronstein had difficulty equalising, and today's GMs seem to make mincemeat of such systems. 

My own record against the Old Indian isn't stellar, but that's more due to my relatively weak play after the first ten moves or so.


It's a surprise weapon for Black.  Wink
  

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Re: A First?
Reply #11 - 09/09/10 at 19:49:25
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(OT)  Ah yes, Pickett.  He penned a number of opening books a few decades ago.  He was perhaps a textbook example of a biased opening writer.  For example, he had a book(let) called something like "New Ideas in the King's Indian," advocating certain lines for Black.  Looking at the contents, a reader might come to the conclusion that the KID is forcibly =/+.

As for analytical problems, I'm reminded of something I heard from (American IM) Larry D. Evans.  Evans (in a game against GM Anatoly Lein, I think) had followed a line from one of Pickett's books.  After they reached the end of the book line (which was supposed to be better for the side Evans was playing), Lein made one more move and Evans had to resign.  (I recall a sentence from the back-cover blurb of one of his books, "As always with Mr. Pickett, tactics are to the fore.")  Evans said that he subsequently learned that Pickett was something like "a 1600 player from England who couldn't sell his books over there, so he sends them over here."
  
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Re: A First?
Reply #10 - 09/09/10 at 18:14:12
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Glenn Snow wrote on 09/09/10 at 15:42:38:
motörhead wrote on 09/08/10 at 21:48:15:
kylemeister wrote on 09/08/10 at 19:44:58:
I would think not, since the position shown in the cover mock-up is more in line with 1...Nf6 and 2...d6, and that is what Cherniaev plays/played. 


Seems to be so. the cover also shows that he is inclined to play the push e5-e4 if possible. So I have the feeling that he will not cover the quiet variations eg 1d4 Nf6 2c4 d6 3Nc3 (it will be interesting to see how he tackles 3Nf3) 3...e5 4Nf3 Nbd7 (the true Oldindian so to say; the cover shows, that he prefers 4...e4) 5e4 Be7 6Be2 0-0 70-0 c6 and now to my feeling 8Be3 is most dangerous and +/= at least. Black will face problems on the queen's side.
So at first look I can't really see it a new book on the Old Indian (at least in classical, Tartakowerian way). As far as I remember there isn't a monograph on this passive defence at all.


There were these two rather dated book on the Old Indian:
Pickett (1984). The Old Indian Renewed. Nottingham: The Chess Player. ISBN 0906042534

Soltis, The Not So Old Indian


I know and own the first. To call it a book is an exaggeration. 32 pages... And it is not of the highest analytical quality, at least. I found flaws here and there but well it was pre-computer-era. The concept of the booklet after 1d4 Nf6 2c4 d6 3Nc3 is to omit Nbd7 to keep the Bishop c8 free but to play 3...c7-c6, Qd8-c7 and then e7-e5. 
But this concept is a bit artificial. The Bc8 has only one natural square - g4 - where he may be forced to an uncomfortable exchange. Keeping the Bishop at home nearly forces Black to play Nbd7 at some time anyway. Then the question remains: What's the use of the Queen on c7? She will be vulnerable to a later Rc1. Not too convincing...
Btw. Pickett comes around with the idea Be7-d8. He has a liking for those manouvers. He too worked with the idea in his Philidor-booklet - but there the Queen wasn't placed on c7 (where she obstructs the Bishop) but on e8.

The second source may be interesting. I never heard of that book by Soltis. I own another Soltis-pamphlet, "A Black Defensive System with 1...d6", that contains a slice of Old-Indian ideas (1d4 d6 2c4 e5). But I'm not convinced, neither by the systems, he offers, nor by the quality of analysis. Soltis allways poses problems to me. He is very prolific and he writes good books - and bad ones. And you never know what you will get. On the item, Yrölä and Tella with the explosive repertoire after 1...d6 are much better.
  

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Re: A First?
Reply #9 - 09/09/10 at 15:42:38
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motörhead wrote on 09/08/10 at 21:48:15:
kylemeister wrote on 09/08/10 at 19:44:58:
I would think not, since the position shown in the cover mock-up is more in line with 1...Nf6 and 2...d6, and that is what Cherniaev plays/played. 


Seems to be so. the cover also shows that he is inclined to play the push e5-e4 if possible. So I have the feeling that he will not cover the quiet variations eg 1d4 Nf6 2c4 d6 3Nc3 (it will be interesting to see how he tackles 3Nf3) 3...e5 4Nf3 Nbd7 (the true Oldindian so to say; the cover shows, that he prefers 4...e4) 5e4 Be7 6Be2 0-0 70-0 c6 and now to my feeling 8Be3 is most dangerous and +/= at least. Black will face problems on the queen's side.
So at first look I can't really see it a new book on the Old Indian (at least in classical, Tartakowerian way). As far as I remember there isn't a monograph on this passive defence at all.


There were these two rather dated book on the Old Indian:
Pickett (1984). The Old Indian Renewed. Nottingham: The Chess Player. ISBN 0906042534

Soltis, The Not So Old Indian

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/09/10 at 15:15:55:
TN wrote on 09/09/10 at 13:54:47:
Does anyone know if the authors will have a look at 3.Nc3/3.Nf3 Bf5? This variation is a good surprise weapon that has been employed by Georgiev, although White keeps a solid +=.



I'm unclear on the concept. 

Why would White even bother with a "surprise weapon" against the Old Indian?  Even Bronstein had difficulty equalising, and today's GMs seem to make mincemeat of such systems. 

My own record against the Old Indian isn't stellar, but that's more due to my relatively weak play after the first ten moves or so.


I've used the ...Bf5 system myself as a decent surprise weapon.  This system (at least one variation of it that I remember anyway) on this forum without finding a clear-cut edge for White.  Perhaps one of the new repertoire books out there has a convincing line against it.
  
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Re: A First?
Reply #8 - 09/09/10 at 15:15:55
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TN wrote on 09/09/10 at 13:54:47:
Does anyone know if the authors will have a look at 3.Nc3/3.Nf3 Bf5? This variation is a good surprise weapon that has been employed by Georgiev, although White keeps a solid +=.



I'm unclear on the concept. 

Why would White even bother with a "surprise weapon" against the Old Indian?  Even Bronstein had difficulty equalising, and today's GMs seem to make mincemeat of such systems. 

My own record against the Old Indian isn't stellar, but that's more due to my relatively weak play after the first ten moves or so.
  
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Re: A First?
Reply #7 - 09/09/10 at 13:54:47
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Does anyone know if the authors will have a look at 3.Nc3/3.Nf3 Bf5? This variation is a good surprise weapon that has been employed by Georgiev, although White keeps a solid +=.
  

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Re: A First?
Reply #6 - 09/08/10 at 21:48:15
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kylemeister wrote on 09/08/10 at 19:44:58:
I would think not, since the position shown in the cover mock-up is more in line with 1...Nf6 and 2...d6, and that is what Cherniaev plays/played. 


Seems to be so. the cover also shows that he is inclined to play the push e5-e4 if possible. So I have the feeling that he will not cover the quiet variations eg 1d4 Nf6 2c4 d6 3Nc3 (it will be interesting to see how he tackles 3Nf3) 3...e5 4Nf3 Nbd7 (the true Oldindian so to say; the cover shows, that he prefers 4...e4) 5e4 Be7 6Be2 0-0 70-0 c6 and now to my feeling 8Be3 is most dangerous and +/= at least. Black will face problems on the queen's side.
So at first look I can't really see it a new book on the Old Indian (at least in classical, Tartakowerian way). As far as I remember there isn't a monograph on this passive defence at all.
  

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Re: A First?
Reply #5 - 09/08/10 at 20:25:42
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Fllg wrote on 09/08/10 at 20:24:10:
Offtopic: I have also seen an anouncement on Everymans website of a book called "The Killer Sicilian: Fighting 1.e4 with the Kalashnikov" by Tony Rotella Wink


I don't want to move this thread off-topic either, but anyone with that name's gotta be a total stiff. Grin
  
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Re: A First?
Reply #4 - 09/08/10 at 20:24:10
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Offtopic: I have also seen an anouncement on Everymans website of a book called "The Killer Sicilian: Fighting 1.e4 with the Kalashnikov" by Tony Rotella Wink
  
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Re: A First?
Reply #3 - 09/08/10 at 19:44:58
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I would think not, since the position shown in the cover mock-up is more in line with 1...Nf6 and 2...d6, and that is what Cherniaev plays/played. 
  
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Re: A First?
Reply #2 - 09/08/10 at 18:49:01
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I assume this is the 1...d6 version of the Old Indian with the idea 2.c4 e5 and possibly 2.Nf3 Bg4. This was quite well covered in "An Explosive Chess Opening Repertoire" http://www.gambitbooks.com/books/explosive.html but the book is somewhat dated now. The drawback to the move-order obviously is that Black must be ready to face 2.e4.
  

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