It is possilbe that Matematix g3 (idea h4 first before g4?) is better but g4 g5 Qe3 is still not easy for black. White is plan is f4 at some point, perhaps supported by a rook at f1 or f2.  Once gpawn is remmoved h4g5 can sometiems by played and blacks position looks a bit worse.

Interesting game but is whites h4 forced? I think black is better after whites h4. How about something like Qe3 thretening to play f4 at some point, sometimes after a pawn sac by h4 gxh4 in some lines and sometimes prepered by Rf1?. 

But you have a point, anything can happened in a chessgame and white Bb5 does not win by force.

Glenn Snow wrote:

Here's a little bit I've found from this and other threads:

"Well, I have had problems with the 9.0-0-0 d5 10.Kb1 - line as well. Black's chances after the queen sac look very limited, especially if White plays 17.Bb5, e.g. 17..a6 18.Ba4 b5 19.Bb3 Bxb3 and now 20.axb3! (which Dearing says is "surprisingly bad", but I believe only his analysis is inaccurate, since he doesn't mention 20..a5 21.Qe2 a4 22.Ka2! when black cannot make real progress any more and is facing problems on both sides of the board). I recently tried 18...Rfd8 19.Qe2 Rd4 20.Bb3 Bxb3 21.axb3 Rad8 and after 22.g4!? it was no fun at all to play the dark side. Sad Does anybody have ideas to improve Black's play or can anybody criticize my assessment of the arising positions?" ,   Swiss_Dragon

"In the line swiss_dragon gave after 17.Bb5 a6 18.Ba4 b5 19.Bb3 Bxb3 20.axb3 a5 21.Qe2 a4 22.Ka2 I do not see how white can make progress after 22...b4 (threat a3) 23.bxa4 Rxa4+ 24.Kb3 Rfa8 as white's rook will be tied down to the b-pawn after e.g 25.Rd1 Ra2 26.Rb1 Ra4. However this doesnt give any winning chances to black either  Sad . Any improvements on this?",  goldaxe

"Goldaxe's line seems the best black has, but there is some play left on the kingsside where Black has to be very careful, e.g. 25.g4!? (Rd1 looks like a loss of a tempo to me, although this may actually not make a big difference) Ra2 26.Rb1 and let's say 26..e6 27.f4 h6 (allowing g5 creates problems on the back rank) 28.f5!? At one point Black might play Rxb2 Rxb2 Ra3 Kxb4 Bb2 and hope to create some fortress while giving up the bishop for the c-pawn, but I don't see an easy fortress as long as the h-pawns are still on the board. I think, Black has really very limited play and any mistake may be fatal, while I'm not sure whether the position is a draw at all. Who likes to play such a position?",  Swiss _Dragon
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"What do you think of this variation in queen sac line 17.Bb5 a6 18.Ba4 Rfd8 19.Qe2 Rd4 20.Bb3 Bb3 21.ab Rad8 22.g4?What is the idea of 22...Bh4,as played by swiss dragon?What do you think of Vocaruto's 22...g5?",  keerik

"Well, the idea of 22...Bh4 was to prevent White' plan of h4, g5 followed by h5. The move 22...g5 has the same idea.
At that time 22.g4 was new to me and 22...Bh4 was an over-the-board idea, maybe not the best one. However the computer gives White an advantage after 22...g5 and other moves as well. So I would hesitate to play the same line again.",  Swiss_Dragon

"@SwissDragon: search the position after 22.g4 in the Chessbase Online database. There were two correspondence games where black sat still with 22. ... e6 and made 1,5/2, perhaps your 22. ... Bh4 was a bit of a panic reaction?"  (From another thread but included because it might be relevant.)

"Well right, 22...Bh4 was a bit of a strange move. I didn't know that 22.g4 had already been played and so running into my opponent's preparation I wanted to play something surprising, too. Smiley It didn't turn out so badly, as I think the game was drawish until move 53(!), when I took a poisend pawn beeing already far way behind on the clock. So 22...e6 may be more natural, but still I would clearly prefer White here. The game Krohalev-Berriot stops after move 26, when I would really be interested, what Black plays after the move 27.Re1!? threatening hxg6 hxg6 Rxe5 Rxe5 Qh8+, e.g. 27..Bg7 28.h6 and there are always problems on the back rank. You see, there are some traps in the position and it's not so funny to defend against them for a long time. It is certainly a different thing in correspondence chess, when your friends Rybka and Fritz can warn you.",   Swiss_Dragon

"I'm not sure White can win by force after either of those two moves but then again despite Dzindi's recommendation, I'm not sure 22.g4 is White's best move.  I've wondered if 22.g3!? with an eventual followup of h4 then g4 wasn't better.  I suppose it depends on what Black can do in the meantime. ",   Glenn Snow  (I'd forgotten about Blacks 21...e6!? apparently.)

There's also this idea for Black which might be good enough to draw but I'm not too excited about it which is why I keep forgetting about it.

Glenn Snow wrote on 03/03/11 at 08:11:02:

Off-Topic replies have been moved to this Topic.

Quote:


Some analysis has been posted which is partially based on some analysis by GM Dzindzichashvili.  I've looked at it quite a bit myself and think the ending is better for White but I don't know if it's winning or not.  Of course I'm no where near IM strength so my judgement on this is very much open to question.

Quote:


I for one am not worried about this variation.  But I have mentioned at least twice about the variation after 12...exf6 which I think is the most troublesome.  I still, for the moment anyway, think this is Black's best in this variation and that Black isn't worse in a theoretical sense if he knows exactly what he's doing.  I still think practically speaking that the variation is easier for White to play but this is admittedly subjective.

Before progressing this analysis any further, could someone please post an explanation of why white is thought to be winning (or even better) after 17.Bb5?

In particular, any reason why black isn't just fine after the usual a6, Ba4 b5 stuff would be helpful.

All the best,

Eddie

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 03/23/11 at 04:17:18:


Thanks Smyslov_Fan and I agree with your assessment.  I believe I read it's Smyslov's birthday today as well!

bragesjo wrote on 03/23/11 at 13:13:40:


This was one of the first lines I tried too when I started investigating the ...Rb8, h4 variation but I don't think Black does have enough compensation.  Even if he can draw, however, it's not a very inspiring variation for the Black pieces.  I have another variation which ends in opposite colored Bishops with Black one pawn down (but there are still Rooks on the board) which I think is closer to equality but it's not the kind of dynamic equality I would want with this opening.  Better to give white plus over equals with middlegame dynamism than that me thinks.