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Poll closed Question: Should non-2.Nf3 lines be covered in PTP?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Yes; transpositions chapter    
  3 (11.5%)
Yes; cover all key lines briefly    
  3 (11.5%)
Yes; handle in different chapters    
  3 (11.5%)
Yes; cover a few lines in detail    
  2 (7.7%)
No; this is Play the Petroff    
  12 (46.2%)
No; recommend other sources    
  3 (11.5%)




Total votes: 26
« Last Modified by: TN on: 10/12/10 at 12:56:00 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta (Read 114896 times)
RoleyPoley
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #113 - 12/14/14 at 09:37:41
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still no pdf of the book's contents...I'm curious as to what may be behind the delay. I hope nothing too serious.

  

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Pale Horse, Pale Rider
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #112 - 11/30/14 at 10:20:29
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RoleyPoley wrote on 04/23/14 at 19:29:23:
In the Kings Indian thread there has been a post about a new book by a new publishing company. I looked at the link and saw that the commisioning editor of the company is Anil Gupta and amongst the new titles is a repertoire book on the Petroff by GM Har-Zvi... due out in August/December 2014.

http://metrochessla.com/publishing/



The release date has been postponed to january 2015. Since this thread and the one about Cohen's book I started playing the petrov as main defence to 1. e4, so I am very interested and hope this will eventually be published ...
  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #111 - 04/23/14 at 19:29:23
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In the Kings Indian thread there has been a post about a new book by a new publishing company. I looked at the link and saw that the commisioning editor of the company is Anil Gupta and amongst the new titles is a repertoire book on the Petroff by GM Har-Zvi... due out in August/December 2014.

http://metrochessla.com/publishing/

  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #110 - 03/18/14 at 21:24:58
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Yeah, that's a great article, PANFR! Boris Alterman has added substantially to the analysis in his Gambit Guide.
  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #109 - 03/18/14 at 09:23:50
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PANFR wrote on 03/18/14 at 07:08:45:
For the 3.e3 e5 QGA line


That's also a line worth mining for ideas. Black has an extra tempo, but that doesn't always make a difference if say in a QGA version, White plays h3 to be met by Bxf3, whilst in the French or Petroff version, Black can take on f3 immediately. It's what happens after 1. Qxf3 Nxd4 2. Qxb7 Nf5 that I'm exploring having had that in a recent game. Which Rook should go to d1 for instance hitting the Queen?

  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #108 - 03/18/14 at 07:08:45
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For the 3.e3 e5 QGA line, an excellent piece of information is an article (actually a lecture from Dvoretsky's Chess School) by the late GM Yuri Razuvaev. It's named "You are right, Monsieur La Bourdonnais!" and it can be found on the older "Opening Preparation" Dvoretsky book (Batsford 1994).
  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #107 - 03/17/14 at 20:54:00
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Pale Horse, Pale Rider wrote on 03/17/14 at 18:13:30:
[quote author=310720630 link=1284068045/98#98 date=1395048245]

He awards the move 7. c4 with "?!" saying that in his view this "loses any chance at an advantage".


Most of the practical experience of the position is from the French move order and while I've won games from other move orders in the Exchange French, the Nc6 and Bg4 plan is particularly drawish. The Carlsen move order is interesting, because in practice the move .. Bg4 is a nuisance and he managed to rule it out by getting h3 and h6 played. The other difference from a more normal French derived position is that he's tempted the Bishop to d6. This can be important in tactical sequences since the d4 pawn isn't hanging. So Carlsen's play in the Petroff could reinforce White's play in the Exchange French.

An early c4 before moving the Bishop has the additional point in that cxd5 can be played

  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #106 - 03/17/14 at 19:13:47
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Pale Horse, Pale Rider wrote on 03/17/14 at 18:59:38:
I know next to nothing about the QGA, so it would be great if you could give the whole line? How could a black pawn end up on d5 in the QGA? 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e3 e5 4. Bxc4 exd4 5. exd4 Nf6 6. Nf3 Bd6 ... is this the line you are talking about? I don't see the similiarity ...


The transposition comes later:  1. d4 d5 2. c4 dc 3. e3 e5 4. Bxc4 ed 5. ed Bd6 6. Nf3 Nf6 7. 0-0 0-0 8. Nc3 Nc6 9. h3 h6 (and here Rizzitano considered 10. Qc2 and 10. a3 the main moves).
  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #105 - 03/17/14 at 18:59:38
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kylemeister wrote on 03/17/14 at 18:46:24:
Like PANFR was talking about, Carlsen-Giri can be seen as a 3. e3 e5 QGA line (incidentally chosen by James Rizzitano for his QGA repertoire book some years ago) with an extra tempo for Black. 


I know next to nothing about the QGA, so it would be great if you could give the whole line? How could a black pawn end up on d5 in the QGA? 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e3 e5 4. Bxc4 exd4 5. exd4 Nf6 6. Nf3 Bd6 ... is this the line you are talking about? I don't see the similiarity ...
  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #104 - 03/17/14 at 18:46:24
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Like PANFR was talking about, Carlsen-Giri can be seen as a 3. e3 e5 QGA line (incidentally chosen by James Rizzitano for his QGA repertoire book some years ago) with an extra tempo for Black.
  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #103 - 03/17/14 at 18:13:30
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RdC wrote on 03/17/14 at 09:24:05:
There's a line in the Petroff which goes 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d3 Nf6 6. d4 d5. This transposes to an Exchange French which is always trashed by authors advocating the French, but I believe is slightly better than its reputation. By 7. c4, White gets a potential IQP position, similar in some ways to main lines of the Petroff. It still can be drawish though.

What do authors of books on the Petroff do about this line? Do they just write that it's an Exchange French and that you should read a chapter in a book on the French? Or do they contribute some original ideas? Authors on the Exchange French are apt to recommend plans with Bd6 and Ne7, which cannot reach the Petroff set up.


Or Cohen adresses this in "A vigorous chess opening repertoire for black" which is a Petrov repertoire book for black. His mainline is this game:



He awards the move 7. c4 with "?!" saying that in his view this "loses any chance at an advantage".
  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #102 - 03/17/14 at 17:20:27
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PANFR wrote on 03/17/14 at 16:22:14:
Ain't the Yusupov variation looking like the Spassky "Tennis Court" variation (5.Qe2 Qe7 6.d3 etc) but with Black having somewhat easier game, since he was able to deploy his bishop to g7? It looks flat equal to me after 8...Qe7.


I'd be inclined to think of ...Bg7 as slightly misplaced, e.g. in relation to the probably desirable ...c6 (which Black plays in what I think of as the main line of the STC variation).  This game seems interesting.

  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #101 - 03/17/14 at 16:22:14
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kylemeister wrote on 03/17/14 at 15:53:03:
6...g6 has been alleged (by Yusupov, citing Forintos & Haag) to lead to an edge for White after 7. Nc3 with the idea of 7...Bg7 8. Qe2+.  Aside from 6...d5, 6...Be7 is certainly one of the moves which have been considered as leading to equality.  (I think of it like:  White can't simultaneously play Bd3 and h3 to reach Fischer-Gheorghiu.)


Ain't the Yusupov variation looking like the Spassky "Tennis Court" variation (5.Qe2 Qe7 6.d3 etc) but with Black having somewhat easier game, since he was able to deploy his bishop to g7? It looks flat equal to me after 8...Qe7.
  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #100 - 03/17/14 at 15:53:03
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6...g6 has been alleged (by Yusupov, citing Forintos & Haag) to lead to an edge for White after 7. Nc3 with the idea of 7...Bg7 8. Qe2+.  Aside from 6...d5, 6...Be7 is certainly one of the moves which have been considered as leading to equality.  (I think of it like:  White can't simultaneously play Bd3 and h3 to reach Fischer-Gheorghiu.)
  
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Re: C42-C43: Play the Petroff by Har-Zvi and Gupta
Reply #99 - 03/17/14 at 15:16:01
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RdC wrote on 03/17/14 at 09:24:05:
There's a line in the Petroff which goes 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. Nxe5 d6 4. Nf3 Nxe4 5. d3 Nf6 6. d4 d5. This transposes to an Exchange French which is always trashed by authors advocating the French, but I believe is slightly better than its reputation. By 7. c4, White gets a potential IQP position, similar in some ways to main lines of the Petroff. It still can be drawish though.

What do authors of books on the Petroff do about this line? Do they just write that it's an Exchange French and that you should read a chapter in a book on the French? Or do they contribute some original ideas? Authors on the Exchange French are apt to recommend plans with Bd6 and Ne7, which cannot reach the Petroff set up.


Black has no need to answer 6...d5 when white plays so slowly- both 6...Be7 and 6...g6 should be fine.
And anyway, I fail to find why playing some 3.e3 e5 queen's gambit accepted type of position where Black has not even captured on c4 yet (he can do it after white moves the f1 bishop) should worry Black at all.
  
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