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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Modern Steinitz Understanding (Read 11189 times)
NeverGiveUp
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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #13 - 08/19/11 at 08:16:57
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walkingterrapin wrote on 08/18/11 at 19:08:05:
I am starting to become more interested in the Modern Steinitz as my old mainstay the marshall is becoming played out.  I am doing a little research now and would be interested to hear any opinions on the validity or not of this old school opening. 

It is quite valid. Definitely recommended.
It's more like a system rather than a variation: both sides have lots of possibilities. This is good because you can vary yourself within the MS, if you want to surprise your opponent or want to replace a variation you don't like. Black can play solid, but can also go aggresive.
I suggest you get Taylor's recent repertoire book "Slay the spanish" which uses the MS as main weapon. He gives some good variations for black to play, mainly based on the legendary Keres (my hero) who had a staggering life-time 70% with the MS with black! He gives loads of illustrative games as well which are very good and instructive.
There is not much else although I use ECO-C quite a bit as well. I still have the first edition which has some very good and complete analyses of the MS. Taylor's book is a repertoire book and doesn't cover all the variations. This forum also has some good discussions, although they may be confusing if you're just learning the system. 
The MS is totally out of fashion (not clear to me why), so any white will have very limited experience with or maybe none at all, may not know what to do, may not understand the system as a whole, and / or may have forgotten the theory altogether.
  
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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #12 - 08/18/11 at 21:30:57
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If you search for this (using 'Search'), you'll see a ream of discussion of its validity.
  
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walkingterrapin
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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #11 - 08/18/11 at 19:08:05
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I am starting to become more interested in the Modern Steinitz as my old mainstay the marshall is becoming played out.  I am doing a little research now and would be interested to hear any opinions on the validity or not of this old school opening.
  
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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #10 - 10/20/10 at 21:39:11
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My limited understanding is that Black is committed to dull defense after 5.c3 unless he plays the Siesta which, so far as I understand, is not quite sound.
  

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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #9 - 10/19/10 at 15:00:32
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To clarify:

After 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 d6, 4 d4 is held to be the strongest move, giving White chances of some advantage.

After 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 d6, 5 d4 is supposed to be easily neutralized by 5... b5 6 Bb3 Nxd4 etc. Instead, White is held to have chances of advantage with 5 c3, 5 0-0 or (more controversially) 5 Bxc6+ bxc6 6 d4.

The theory of these lines has remained fairly stable for more than a century and is explained in any decent openings manual that deals with the Ruy Lopez.

In the past, the "heroes" of the Steinitz Deferred inluded Capablanca, Alekhine, Smyslov, Keres, Bronstein and the Rumanian Ciocaltea.

I suggest that you will find that the early evolution of the main defences to the Ruy Lopez is particularly well explained and illustrated in the classic book "Chess from Morphy to Botvinnik" by IM Imre Koenig.
  
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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #8 - 10/19/10 at 04:04:38
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Probably exactly what the text says it is. Wink
Just click on one of the authors at the top and you'll see that it's not worth thinking about.
  
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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #7 - 10/07/10 at 18:25:20
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Searching about GM Hess, I found this: http://www.amazon.com/Robert-Chess-Player-Lambert-Surhone/dp/6133152923/ref=sr_1...

Anyone knows what is this high quality Wikipedia articles at 100.00 dol !!?  Shocked
  

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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #6 - 10/07/10 at 17:23:17
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Got it buddies. Thanks for the details.
  
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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #5 - 10/07/10 at 00:53:00
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kylemeister wrote on 10/06/10 at 18:51:32:
It seems useful to make White commit his bishop early, and after 3...a6 4. Ba4 d6 the possibility of the Noah's Ark Trap (e.g. 5. d4 b5 6. Bb3 Nxd4 7. Nxd4 ed 8. Qxd4??) becomes a factor.

I won a rapid game using the Noah's Ark Trap last year, when experimenting with the Deferred Steinitz as Black.  It seems to catch a surprisingly large number of players- perhaps some of them play by analogy with the 3...d6 4.d4 line.

Mortal Games wrote on 10/06/10 at 20:10:56:
In general, 3...a6 is a more interesting variation and more active, and it´s incredible how one move can lead to a completely diferent world. In some variations, it is possible to play ...Bg4 followed by ...b5 and ...Nd4 and if White plays h3 against ...Bg4, Black can play ...h5 in the spirit of the Exchange variation with 5...Bg4. If White plays Bxc6 then Black achieves a very solid and almost impenetrable structure.

Indeed, e.g. after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 d6 5.0-0 Bg4 6.h3 h5!? with possibilities on the kingside, in some cases sacrificng the piece for compensation later on.

I can't remember what White's critical line is considered to be these days; perhaps 5.Bxc6+ bxc6 6.d4, as Black may be doing okay in the Siesta Variation (5.c3 f5!?).  There was a thread on it somewhere but I can't find it.
  
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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #4 - 10/06/10 at 22:47:16
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Thanks for the info.
  
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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #3 - 10/06/10 at 20:10:56
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In general, 3...a6 is a more interesting variation and more active, and it´s incredible how one move can lead to a completely diferent world. In some variations, it is possible to play ...Bg4 followed by ...b5 and ...Nd4 and if White plays h3 against ...Bg4, Black can play ...h5 in the spirit of the Exchange variation with 5...Bg4. If White plays Bxc6 then Black achieves a very solid and almost impenetrable structure.
  

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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #2 - 10/06/10 at 18:51:32
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Indeed; the basis/genesis of the Neo-Steinitz move order is the Tarrasch Trap of about a century ago (where Black is forced to "give up the center" after 3...d6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. 0-0 Be7 7. Re1).  Black can play with ...Nge7 (as in the line Hess has been playing) without an early ..a6, but then White has some added possibilities including 3...d6 4. d4 Bd7 5. Nc3 Nge7 6. Bc4 or 6. 0-0 Ng6 7. b3 (a couple of the lines given by ECO as leading to an edge for White).  It seems useful to make White commit his bishop early, and after 3...a6 4. Ba4 d6 the possibility of the Noah's Ark Trap (e.g. 5. d4 b5 6. Bb3 Nxd4 7. Nxd4 ed 8. Qxd4??) becomes a factor.
  
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Re: Modern Steinitz Understanding
Reply #1 - 10/06/10 at 17:31:28
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I think some positions come up where it's useful for Black to be able to break the pin with tempo, for example to maintain his pawn on e5. Inserting 3...a6 4.Ba4 means that black can simultaneously remove the pin and take away White's Bxc6 option with ...b5 when needed.
  

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Modern Steinitz Understanding
10/06/10 at 17:24:57
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In the modern Steinit of the Ruy Lopez, a variation american GM Hess has been playing his whole career successfully, I don't quite understand why 3..a6 is played and then 4..d6; why not just play 3..d6? What does inserting the move a6 at this particular point do? Couldn't a6 just be played later? There must be a certian variation black is avoiding.
  
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