Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Bogolyubov Defence, 1 d4 Nc6 2 Nf3!? (and 3 c4) (Read 15024 times)
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1947
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: Bogolyubov Defence, 1 d4 Nc6 2 Nf3!? (and 3 c4)
Reply #5 - 10/30/10 at 08:57:37
Post Tools
I must say I'm very doubtful about 2 ...f5, for the reason TN gives. Since d4-d5 occurs so often in the Dutch anyway Black could surely only justify his tempo loss if he can argue he's forced White into playing it prematurely so that he can develop good counterplay against it, and is that [i]really[/i] the case here?

But in the last paragraph of my original post I think I was guilty of an omission/misunderstanding. I suggested that, after 2 ...g6 3 c4 Bg7 4 Nc3 d6, 5 ...Bg4 was an inferior Averbakh, but I was confusing this position with that in which White hasn't played Nc3 (and thus can capture a Nd4 then play Nd2 and Nf3 attacking the pawn on d4 -- see the two Epishin-Gulko games). Here by contrast, after 6 Be3 isn't 6 ...e5 just fine for Black? (6 ...Bf3 looks interesting too?) These positions are more commonly reached via a few (inferior) Averbakh(-related) move orders, namely:

*1 d4 d6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 Nc6 5 Nf3?! Bg4 6 Be3 e5
*1 d4 d6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 e4 e5 5 Nf3?! Nc6 6 Be3?! Bg4
*1 d4 d6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 Nf3 Bg4 5 e4?! Nc6 6 Be3 e5

At present, I think that White should be in no hurry to play Nc3, but instead should play [1 d4 Nc6 2 Nf3 g6 3 c4 Bg7] 4 e4(!) d6 5 Be2. Now 5 ...Bg4, though the most common move, is Epishin-Gulko, so let's look instead at 5 ...e5!?. After 6 d5 Nce7 7 Nc3, Black can transpose to a mainline KID with 7 ...Nf6. He also has 7 ...f5, which may after 8 ef Nf5 9 0-0 Nf6 10 Ng5 0-0 transpose to an 8 Be3 KID line (8 Be3 f6 9 Bg5 f6 10 Bc1!? f5 11 d5 Ne7 12 Ng5 Nf6 13 ef Nf5). This is considered a bit better for White but doesn't look too fearsome. Finally there is 7 ...Nh6!?, which I haven't yet looked at at all ...




  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Bogolyubov Defence, 1 d4 Nc6 2 Nf3!? (and 3 c4)
Reply #4 - 10/30/10 at 04:04:08
Post Tools
Merovingian wrote on 10/30/10 at 00:55:05:
After 1.d4 Nc6 2.Nf3 f5!? is an interesting move.


3.d5 Nb8 4.c4 is favourable for White.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Merovingian
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


The question is, do *you*
know why you are here?

Posts: 12
Location: Winnipeg,Canada
Joined: 10/28/10
Gender: Male
Re: Bogolyubov Defence, 1 d4 Nc6 2 Nf3!? (and 3 c4)
Reply #3 - 10/30/10 at 00:55:05
Post Tools
After 1.d4 Nc6 2.Nf3 f5!? is an interesting move.
  

You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth. Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1947
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Re: Bogolyubov Defence, 1 d4 Nc6 2 Nf3!? (and 3 c4)
Reply #2 - 10/17/10 at 23:49:08
Post Tools
Thanks for this Glenn -- very interesting. I found one game in each of these lines. True, in both cases Black lost, but I don't think he needed to! I also found a game which went 7 ...Nd7 8 0-0 h6!?, challenging White to find a constructive continuation. I don't think 9 Ne1 is it. (9 Rb1 perhaps?)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Glenn Snow
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1720
Location: Franklin
Joined: 09/27/03
Gender: Male
Re: Bogolyubov Defence, 1 d4 Nc6 2 Nf3!? (and 3 c4)
Reply #1 - 10/17/10 at 05:00:40
Post Tools
After 1.d4 Nc6 2.Nf3 d6 3.c4 e5 4.Nc3 Bg4 5.d5 Nb8 6.e4 Be7 7.Be2, perhaps 7...Bxf3 8.Bxf3 Bg5 is acceptable for Black although I wonder about 9.Qb3 here.  In that case Black might want to play 7...Nd7 8.O-O Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Bg5.  This was just the first thing that popped into my head when looking at your analysis.  I don't have any experience with playing any of these positions.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Michael Ayton
God Member
*****
Offline


‘You’re never alone with
a doppelgänger.’

Posts: 1947
Location: durham
Joined: 04/19/03
Gender: Male
Bogolyubov Defence, 1 d4 Nc6 2 Nf3!? (and 3 c4)
10/09/10 at 13:17:35
Post Tools
Following a recent exciting (to me!) thread on 1 d4 Nc6 2 d5 (http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1271505369/0), I’ve been asking myself how Black should handle the position after [u]2 Nf3[/u] (and 3 c4), if s/he doesn’t want to play the Chigorin with 2 …d5, and isn’t keen, either, on the Zurich Nimzo. In a sense, 1 d4 Nc6!? might be thought of as an attempt to transpose into a Tango (after 2 c4 e5 3 d5 Nce7) without taking on the Zurich, trading the Zurich for the 1 d4 Nc6 2 d5 line, so to speak. But after 2 Nf3!? Black has to be prepared for independent lines, as well as for some mind-boggling transpositions.

What then should Black play? Possible is 2 …e6!? 3 e4 d5 with a French, but then 3 c4 encourages a Zurich. So I’ve been looking principally at [u]2 …d6[/u] and [u]2 …g6[/u]. (These will often transpose, and 2 …Nf6 will probably transpose to one of these.)  Since I still haven’t got hold of a copy of Keilhack & Schlenker I’d love to know what they cover/propose. As I understand it, the main ‘Bogo’ lines after 2 Nf3 are 2 …d6!? 3 c4 e5 4 Nc3 and then: (1) [u]4 …Bg4[/u] 5 d5 Nce7, (2) [u]4 …g6[/u] 5 d5 Nce7, and (3) [u]4 …ed[/u] 5 Nd4 g6. I’m willing to be persuaded I’m wrong, but at the moment I don’t like any of these! – if only because of 6 Qb3 in (1) and 6 c5 in (2). I notice, however, that in (1), 5 …Nb8!? has been played by Smyslov (and Tarrasch!). After 6 e4 Be7 7 Be2 Nf6 8 0-0 0-0 White has 9 Ne1 and 9 Be3. Anyone know the status of this line or have a view on it? Also, in (2) 5 …Nb8 is possible as well, heading for a mainline KID – can White advantageously stop this? (I guess Black could also try for a KID via 2 …d6 3 c4 e5 4 Nc3 Nf6 5 d5 Ne7 6 e4 g6, but then 7 c5!? is a pain?)

Of course, Black has alternatives here to 3 …e5. [u]3 …g6[/u], [u]3 …Nf6[/u] and [u]3 …Bg4[/u] are all possible, aiming either for a mainline KID or to transpose into the ‘Bogo-KID’ 1 d4 Nc6 2 d5 Nb8!? 3 Nf3 d6 4 c4 Nf6 5 Nc3 g6 6 e4 Bg7 (6 …Bg4!?), which Stefan Bücker (at the end of the other thread) thought OK for Black and in which I even invented my own yet-to-be-played TN – 6 …Bg7 7 h3! 0-0 8 Bd3 c6 9 0-0 [u]Nfd7!?[/u]. This looks a reasonable way to play to me. After (say) 3 …Nf6 4 Nc3 g6, has White any way other than 5/6/7 d5 to try to take advantage?

If Black delays or omits ...Nf6, s/he retains Averbakh possibilities, e.g. 2 ...g6 3 c4 Bg7 4 Nc3 d6 5 e4 Bg4 or 5 …e5, but these lines are meant to be a bit better for White so far as I know – I’m keen to be corrected if I’m wrong. But, there’s still [u]5 …Nf6[/u] here, heading for the rare KID lines.
« Last Edit: 10/09/10 at 16:29:39 by Michael Ayton »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo