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Normal Topic Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3 (Read 5743 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3
Reply #9 - 06/23/20 at 23:44:49
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FreeRepublic wrote on 06/23/20 at 22:59:49:
Has anyone seen theory on 1d4 Nf6 2Nf3 b5 ?

Chess Assistant has 1,364 games. The resulting score is 50%!

Chess Publishing A covers this sequence. Go CP A! White can choose between many moves on move three. 3g3 and 3 e3 are obvious. However 3Bg5 and 3e4 appear to be the most incisive and score best.

If 1d4 Nf6 2Nf3 b5 is O.K., then I think it would provide a nice compliment to the Budapest.


I see that Christof Sielecki in his 1. d4 book describes 2...b5 as dubious; his main line is 3. Bg5 (this by the way was given as leading to an edge in ye olde ECO and NCO) Bb7 4. Nbd2 a6 5. a4 b4 6. Bxf6 ef 7. e4 intending Bc4 and 0-0.
  
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Re: Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3
Reply #8 - 06/23/20 at 22:59:49
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Has anyone seen theory on 1d4 Nf6 2Nf3 b5 ?

Chess Assistant has 1,364 games. The resulting score is 50%!

Chess Publishing A covers this sequence. Go CP A! White can choose between many moves on move three. 3g3 and 3 e3 are obvious. However 3Bg5 and 3e4 appear to be the most incisive and score best.

If 1d4 Nf6 2Nf3 b5 is O.K., then I think it would provide a nice compliment to the Budapest.
  
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Re: Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3
Reply #7 - 10/29/10 at 18:42:20
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Harding merely mentioned that 6.g3 "is also critical".  I think Black's best in Moskalenko's line may be to "bite the bullet" with 6...Nc6 7.Nh4 Be6 8.Bg2 f5 (8...Nc5 9.b4 Nd7 10.exd6 Bxd6 11.Nd2 leaves Black with insufficient compensation, e.g.11...0-0 12.0-0 Re8 13.Nhf3 Qf6 14.Ra2 with advantage for White) 9.exf6 Nxf6 10.Nc3 Bxc4 11.Qa4 Be6 12.Nf3 Qd7 (envisaging ...Bh3, e.g. 13.0-0 Bh3 14.Bxh3 Qxh3, after which 15.Qb3?! 0-0-0 16.Ng5 Qh5 17.Nf7 Nd4 gives Black good compensation for the exchange). White's best is probably to prevent ...Bh3 altogether, e.g. 13.Ng5 Bf5 14.e4 Bg4 15.h3 Bh5, when White still has some advantage.

Recapping on the earlier thread, after 4...d6 5.Qc2 d5 etc, Craig Evans gave the following:
Quote:
Moskalenko gives a game after 9...Bg4 where white blunders on the next move; whilst the work is a labour of love, his treatment of certain lines is very, very sketchy, and this is one. 10.Bf4 is far more critical, and he should have devoted more than a few lines to it.

10.Bf4 O-O-O 11.e3 and now he suggests 11...Be7, giving 12.Be2 g5! 13.Bg3 h5 14.h3 Be6 "and black has a dangerous attack for the pawn", and mentioning that 12.Bc4 Qe4 13.Be2 asks "another good question".

I would suggest that this is a critical position for the variation. Bizarrely, according to Chesslive.de at least, the move 11.e3 is a novelty, with white normally continuing with h3 or Rc1, which have not done well in practice. 11.e3 seems to make sense though, and after 11...Be7 12.Be2! (I consider 12.Bc4 Qe4 13.Be2 inferior, since black at some point will possibly want to play his queen here anyway, so why give him a tempo) g5 13.Bg3 h5 14.h3 Be6 15.Rd1 Qe4 and white has gained two tempi over the 12.Bc4 line. Now 16.Nd2! looks playable since my original thought of 16...Rxd2 looks insufficient after 17.Kxd2! Qxg2 18.Kc1 and white can untangle after 18...h4 Rh2!.

Therefore, after 16.Nd2, black should probably play Qa4. Here, if white wants to prove he is better, I think he has to man up and play 17.O-O!?, and the question is how dangerous black's attack really is after 17...h4 (17...g4 18.h4 doesn't accomplish too much) 18.Bh2 - and I'm not convinced black has much here.


I think in his line (which may well represent best play after 9.Qxc3, I don't see any obvious improvements for either side), Black has hacking chances on the kingside (e.g. 18...g4 19.hxg4 h3) but White certainly stands better.  Btw 16...Rxd2 will leave Black with one pawn for an exchange with best play, e.g. 17.Kxd2 Qxg2 18.Kc1 h4 19.Rh2 Qe4 20.f3 Qg6 21.Bf2! (eyeing a7) 21...Qf5 rounding up the e5-pawn, but at the cost of exchanging queens, as 22.Rhh1 Nxe5? 23.e4! wins the a7-pawn, and 22...Kb8 23.e4 Qf4+ 24.Be3 forces Black to take with the queen anyway.

I can see this sort of thing working for Black in rapid games (it is easy for White to go wrong, e.g. at the end of the first line, the tempting 17.b4? h4! works nicely for Black) but it doesn't look fully sound.  4.a3 d6 5.Qc2 still looks to be the most critical.
  
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Hehmer
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Re: Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3
Reply #6 - 10/29/10 at 16:45:08
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SWJediknight wrote on 10/29/10 at 15:16:07:
Conversely the version after 2.Nf3 d6 3.c4 (Black of course has no transposition if White wishes to play a Colle, London, Torre etc) 3...e5 4.dxe5 Ne4 is probably sounder in view of the line 5.a3 Bf5!, when Black gets decent compensation with probably just a small edge for White.


What about 6.g3? Moskalenko gives 6.g3!? Nc6 7.Nh4! Be6 8.Bg2 Nc5 9.b4 Nd7 10.exd6 and says that he prefers White, which seems a bit euphemistic. He also mentions 8...f5 9.exf6 Nxf6 10.Nc3! when it's dangerous to retrieve the pawn with 10...Bxc4 11.Qa4 Be6 12.Nf3 and White has a big lead in development.

Providing a retreat for the Bf5 by h6 or h5 seems even worse, Levin - Gutman, Germany 2001: 6...h5!? 7.Bg2 Nc6 8.Nd4 Nxd4 9.Qxd4 Nc5 10.Qe3! (Stronger than 10.Nd2) 10...dxe5 11.b4 Ne6 12.Bb2 f6 13.Bxb7 and White should win but he didn't.
  
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Re: Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3
Reply #5 - 10/29/10 at 16:29:29
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SWJediknight wrote on 10/29/10 at 15:16:07:
would take 5.Qc2 d5 over 5...Nc5 (or the 5...Bf5?! of the game I played a couple of years ago), but like Craig Evans I can't vouch for its soundness.

Practice confirms your assessment:



Lukacs,P (2520) - Becker,W (2275) [A51]
BL2-N 9798 Germany (9.3), 1998

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ne4 4.a3 d6 5.Qc2 d5 6.cxd5 Qxd5 7.Nf3 Nc6 8.Nc3 Nxc3 9.Qxc3 Bg4 10.b4 0-0-0 11.Bb2 g6 12.b5 Bxf3 13.bxc6 Bh6 14.cxb7+ Kb8 15.Qd4 Bd2+ 16.Kxd2 Qxe5 17.e3 c5 0-1

while 5...Bf5? gave White 8 wins out of 8 games.
  

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Re: Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3
Reply #4 - 10/29/10 at 16:27:32
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Stigma wrote on 10/28/10 at 21:23:08:
Are "most players" really scared of the Budapest and Fajarowicz? I doubt it. I would play 1.d4 2.c4 every game if that was the best Black could do.


Nice going, moderator! You let others talk about people being scared of certain openings, but not me! That's a double standard! For example, if I say people are scared of accepting gambits, you start objecting. But when Stigma here says the same, you don't say anything. Rules are supposed to be fair across the board, for everyone, you know?
  
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Re: Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3
Reply #3 - 10/29/10 at 15:16:07
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I've tried out the "Faj" a few times myself, including one game which went 4.a3 d6 5.Qc2 Bf5?! 6.Qb3? (neither of us were aware that 6.Nc3! is great for White, for if 6...Ng3 then 7.e4!). 

Anyway, if Black wants to go for the ...d6 approach, the critical line is 2.c4! e5 3.dxe5 Ne4 4.a3! d6 5.Qc2! d5 6.cxd5 Qxd5 7.Nf3 Nc6 8.Nc3 Nxc3 9.Qxc3, as Craig Evans indicated on the other thread.  As well as 5...d5 Black can consider 5...Nc5 6.b4 Ne6, but this is likely to transpose to the line 4...Nc6 5.Nf3 d6 6.Qc2 Nc5 7.b4 Ne6 with best play, which is very good for White (see http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibitz19.txt for more details on this).
From what I've heard Georgiev's "Squeezing the Gambits" might have some more up-to-date info on the problems Black faces, but I don't own it.

Conversely the version after 2.Nf3 d6 3.c4 (Black of course has no transposition if White wishes to play a Colle, London, Torre etc) 3...e5 4.dxe5 Ne4 is probably sounder in view of the line 5.a3 Bf5!, when Black gets decent compensation with probably just a small edge for White.

There's some analysis in an edition of Kaissiber promoting 4...b6!?, but personally I have doubts over Black's compensation in that line (White should probably avoid the complications of the Qd5 lines, when Black gets excellent play even if it isn't objectively enough, and just develop normally).  I still prefer Black's practical chances after 4...d6, and would take 5.Qc2 d5 over 5...Nc5 (or the 5...Bf5?! of the game I played a couple of years ago), but like Craig Evans I can't vouch for its soundness.
  
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Hehmer
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Re: Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3
Reply #2 - 10/29/10 at 08:08:55
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Nice idea. Instead of 4.dxe5 you also have to reckon with 4.Nc3 transposing to the Old Indian. Those who believe in the Faja might like the sharp 4...e4 then.
  
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Re: Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3
Reply #1 - 10/28/10 at 21:23:08
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Are "most players" really scared of the Budapest and Fajarowicz? I doubt it. I would play 1.d4 2.c4 every game if that was the best Black could do.
  

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Avoiding Buda (Faja) 2.Nf3
10/28/10 at 21:13:34
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Nowadays most of players avoid Buda lines with 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3.

However if somebody is interested in Faja, he can still trasposes via 2..d6 3.c4 e5!? 4.dxe5 Ne4; in fact line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e5 3.dxe5 Ne4 4.Nf3 d6!? where "relatively" best 5.a3 is answered with 5..Bf5 ( or even 5..Bg4 )

Some analysis are in http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1236631540 (except 5.a3 )

Any thoughts?
  
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