Thanks MNB, your luck helped out.  Three whites but all three were accerlerated dragons.  O well.  Noone wanted to play 1........e5.  ended up 3 wins and 2 draws not to shabby for U 2200.

Thanks all.  I will check those games today MNB

@Markovich The Modern is good and I think is probably the safest way for black in the KG, but it also creates less imbalances.  Alot of KG players will not react appropriately and try and fly off in some kind of whimsical attack. 

Tournament this weekend.  Any games I play using the KG I will post on here.

walkingterrapin wrote on 01/26/11 at 17:23:46:


I recognize that they're critical, but I have no taste for these ...g5 ideas OTB as long as the Modern holds up, and it does.  Simple chess and very scant risk.  Or if anyone knows why it doesn't hold up, I'd like to hear it.

walkingterrapin wrote on 01/27/11 at 04:43:50:

6.c3 Bg7 7.g3 Qe7 and now what? 6...Nc6 and 7...Nc6 also look good. But I must admit I never have looked at this in detail.

walkingterrapin wrote on 01/27/11 at 04:43:50:

After 10.f5 Nf6 11.Nc3 0-0-0 (g4? 12.e5!) 12.Bb5 a6 13.Ba4 Rhe8 Black is better.
But again Black should stick to his plan: 10.f5 0-0-0 11.Nc3 (11.Bb5 a6 12.Ba4?! d5) and now g4 (but Nge7 12.Bxf7 Nxf5 is to be investigated as well) 12.Be3 Nf6 (gxf3 13.Qxf3 Bxd4 14.Bxd4 Nxd4 15.Qxh3 Nf6 probably =+) 13.Ne1 h5 14.Bb5 a6 and Black has all the attacking chances.

There still is 8...Nc6, which you consequently fail to address.

3...d6 4.d4 g5 5.Nc3 g4 6.Bxf4! gxf3 7.Qxf3 is a line of the Rosentreter Gambit 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.d4 where Black has already played ...d6.

Now that I have gotten a good look at the board,a look at an old game Issler-Eggman 66, and my KZ book it seems like 1. e4 e5 2. f4 ef 3. Nf3 d6 4 Bc4 h6 5. d4 g5 6. 0-0 (This to me also is the only time really to play c3 in this variation.  Morphy had pretty good results with it back in the day before the day.) Bg7 7. g3 Bh3 8. gf Qd7 9. Rf2 Nc6 10. f5 Nf6 11. Nc3 now black can play g4 which is strongly answered by d5 and Nd4 or 0-0-0 which is answered again with Bb5.

Inferior to what? 

1. e4 e5 2. f4 ef 3. Nf3 d6 4. Bc4 h6 5. d4 g5 6. 0-0 Bg7 7. g3 Bh3 8. gf Qd7?  This move cannot give as good a compensation for black as the exchange.  white simply moves the rook to f2 and has the better prospects.  No reason to take on g5 with the pawn better to let black take on f4 or push to g4.  Games quoted where white snatches pawn in the KG are not usually very helpful. 

If black goes 9. Rf2 Nc6 then white can either play c3 or probably better is Bb5 pinning the Knight.  You have at least made me look at a board MNB.

Bad advise?  I dont think that really exists.  Besides you failed to explore the critical replay to 7......Bh3.

8. gf Bf1 9. Qf1........whites strong center is great compensation for the exchange. 

MNb wrote on 01/26/11 at 09:40:56:


You could look for an advantage with 7 d4 Nxe4 but you wouldn't find it - 8 Nxe4 d5 9 Bd3 dxe4 10 Bxe4 is just equal. You'd also be only the second person ever to play this way (7...Nxe4) as Black (from the 62 games in my database).

Schwebbz wrote on 01/25/11 at 22:03:54:


5 h4 leads to interesting positions, yes. There's no advantage for White, but if you want a theoretical opening advantage you shouldn't be playing the King's Gambit at all . The main plus point of 5 h4 is that the opponent is prevented from playing as intended and that's always a good thing.

Never liked 5.d4 myself, even though it's considered the main line by no less an authority than Gallagher. Try hitting it with 5.h4 (preventing 5...g5) or maybe even 5.b3, covering the space black leaves behind.

Well perhaps it's a matter of taste...

I don't think 9. ... Nd7 changes anything concerning the evaluation of the position. After 10. Nf3 Nf6 11.Nc3 I still like white, whose option also include a quick d5 push or castling long.

You might call the position equal, but I would rather be white here. 

Having said that in the original line with 9. ... Bd6 10.Nf3 Nf4 11.Nc3!? is also a nice option e.g. 11. ... 0-0 12.Qd2 Re8 13.0-0-0 I like queenside castling here!

In contrast I took a quick look at the 5.d4 line and it seemed to me that black has less problems there.

I am thankful for all suggestions of black defences, if I want to build a repertoire I should consider everything black could throw at me! 

I don't know about Perelshtein's recommendation, but after some research 1.e4 e5 2.f4 ef4: 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e5 Ne4 5.d3 Ng5 6.Bf4: Ne6 (6. ... Nf3:+ 7.Qf3: d6 8.Qg3! += Glazkov) 7.Be3! like in Iuldachev-Vladimirov should give white a slight edge in my opinion. This is a typical KG position where white has the extra central pawn and the half open f-file.

The game continued 7. ... d6 8.d4 de5: 9.Ne5: Bd6 10.Nf3 Nf4 (10. ... 0-0 11.Bc4) 11.Qd2 Nd5 12.Bc4 Ne3: 13.Qe3:+ Qe7 14.Qe7: Ke7: 15.0-0 += according to Bangiev, I agree.

In this type of position white should always be a bit better if black doesn't achieve anything special.

Do you disagree?

I see the King's Gambit is getting more popular here again and I took a new look at my old favorite. 

My idea was if it was possible to construct a repertoire with the King's Knight Gambit 1.e4 e5 2.f4 ef4: 3.Nf3.

Of course I have no illusions that white can achieve an advantage against best play, though my aim would be to get theoretical equality with white in every variation, when practical chances are surely with white.

Against 3. ... g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 I think Stefan Buecker's recommendations look quite promising for white in that respect, 3. ... g5 was the reason why I gave up the King's Gambit some years ago.

The Modern Variation 3. ... d5 was never a theoretical problem for white in my view, perhaps I should have a very close look at TJ's new idea here in the forum as I don't think 6.Bd5: promises white anything.

The 'lesser variations' like the Schallopp 3. ... Nf6 4.e5 and Cunningham 3. ... Be7 4.Bc4 could offer white realistic chances for an advantage.

After 3. ... Ne7 I think play transposes to the Modern after 4.Bc4.

What remains are the Becker variation 3. ... h6 and the Fischer defence 3. ... d6.
Any suggestions against the Becker?
In the past I used to play 4.b3!? although I'm not sure if it holds up theoretically.

It seems a lot of developments have been going on in the variations like 3. ... d6 4.d4 g5 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.g3!?
but I am not sure if I trust them completely. It seems to me white has good practical compensation, though it might be insufficient against a good defender or a well prepared opponent.
Or am I wrong? 

When I played the KG I went 3. ... d6 4.d4 g5 5.h4 g4 6.Ng1, though I noticed a problem I wasn't able to solve yet:

6. ... f5! 7.Nc3 fe4:! 8.Bf4: (7.Bf4: fe4: 8.Nc3 is a transposition) d5! (8. ... Nf6 9.d5! with a nice attacking position)
This has been played by Leisebeim in corr chess, but otherwise it has been seen only seldom.

But in my view the move is very logical: black builds a massive center and given some more time his position will be impenetrable and clearly better (white did not show enough compensation after 8. ... Nf6 9.Qd2?! d5, which is black's idea).
So white has to act very quickly:
8. ... d5 9.Be5! Nf6 10.Nd5: Qd5: 11.Bf6: Bb4+! (the point, after 11. ... Rg8 12.Ne2 Bd6 13.Qd2 white consolidates and is at least equal) 12.c3 0-0 13.Bg5 Bd6.

The black structure is messed up, but he has quite a nice lead in development and it is unsure where the white king can hide.
What do you think of this position? The computer likes black here.