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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5 (Read 14538 times)
fling
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #19 - 02/04/12 at 08:30:49
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Chessexplained wrote on 02/04/12 at 08:08:48:
fling wrote on 02/03/12 at 11:59:06:
Sorry, I am at work with no access to games, but wasn't this or something similar with ...b5 played in a Carlsen-game (against Kramnik???)?

Kramnik-Carlsen was a pure reversed Sokolsky, 1.Nf3 b5 2.e4 Bb7 3.Lxb5 Bxe4 - that is much worse compared to 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 b5.


Sorry, that is right. I just remembered Carlsen trying an early ...b5 against Nf3, and later on having a poor position.
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #18 - 02/04/12 at 08:08:48
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fling wrote on 02/03/12 at 11:59:06:
Sorry, I am at work with no access to games, but wasn't this or something similar with ...b5 played in a Carlsen-game (against Kramnik???)?

Kramnik-Carlsen was a pure reversed Sokolsky, 1.Nf3 b5 2.e4 Bb7 3.Lxb5 Bxe4 - that is much worse compared to 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 b5.
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #17 - 02/03/12 at 11:59:06
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Sorry, I am at work with no access to games, but wasn't this or something similar with ...b5 played in a Carlsen-game (against Kramnik???)?
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #16 - 02/03/12 at 09:00:53
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Keano wrote on 02/02/12 at 16:55:21:
RdC wrote on 11/26/10 at 12:53:55:
I've met this sequence twice in recent games against IM/FM opposition. In both cases, I used a Closed Sicilian/Sicilian KIA approach with d3 and e4.

Any other ideas? If I'm expecting 2 .. b5 ,then 2 c4 is always possible


Instead of going for the KIA setup ther is the line:
1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 b5 3.Bg2 Bb7 4.0-0 e6 5.b3!?
(intending 6.c4 is not without its dangers for Black despite the outwardly calm appearance)

Yes, Keano! I think this is the best way to meet 2...b5. Some 20 years ago I played almost exclusively 1.Nf3 as a first player. And I myself tried 2...b5 against 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 several times as a second player. With white I tried almost every possible setup against 2...b5 and found out that this 5.b3-setup was most annoying for black.  Cool
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #15 - 02/02/12 at 16:55:21
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RdC wrote on 11/26/10 at 12:53:55:
I've met this sequence twice in recent games against IM/FM opposition. In both cases, I used a Closed Sicilian/Sicilian KIA approach with d3 and e4.

Any other ideas? If I'm expecting 2 .. b5 ,then 2 c4 is always possible


Instead of going for the KIA setup ther is the line:
1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 b5 3.Bg2 Bb7 4.0-0 e6 5.b3!?
(intending 6.c4 is not without its dangers for Black despite the outwardly calm appearance)
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #14 - 04/06/11 at 11:39:13
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Larsen_fan wrote on 04/05/11 at 17:02:11:

I was looking at the line because it seems to lead to an unbalanced game which would be very unpleasent for one of my coming opponents who is looking for a quiet positional game with 1Nf3 and 2 g3 and later c4. Hence, the variation could be a “trap” to get him to unknown territory. But of course I do not want to play an unsound exc-sacrifice and that’s why I was looking for some advice on the line. Anyone know it or know of good games with it? (I found a game with Aronian on the black side but in that game white did not take on b5).


The only game with this exchange sacrifice I know of is Lago - Gaprindashvili, 1999. White made seemingly plausible moves and ended in a bad position. 10.d3 is a mistake but 10...Qc8 can easily be missed. The exchange sacrifice is highly speculative and possibly not quite correct. It's unlikely that Black succeeds in capturing the Ba8.

Hickl apparently expected the pawn sacrifice 4...d5. I think he was surprised by 4...c6. At least that's the only explanation I have for his opening play in his game vs. Aronian. 

The oldest 3...e6 games with decent players I could find are Csom - Romanishin, 1976, and Szymczak - Prandstetter, 1979. In both cases White didn't dare to take the offer. Cautious white players can simply decline the offer and play their chess. 


[Date "1999.??.??"]
[White "Lago, Victor Miguel"]
[Black "Gaprindashvili, Valerian"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2340"]
[BlackElo "2390"]

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 e6 3. Bg2 b5 4. Nd4 c6 5. Nxb5 cxb5 6. Bxa8 d5 7. a4 b4 8. c4 Ba6
9. cxd5 exd5 10. d3 Qc8 11. e4 dxe4 12. O-O Bxd3 13. Re1 Be7 14. Nd2 Nc6 15. Bxc6+ Qxc6
16. Nf1 O-O 17. Be3 Qd7 18. Kg2 Rd8 19. Rc1 Nd5 20. Qb3 Qe6 21. Nd2 h5 22. Bxa7 h4
23. Kg1 hxg3 24. fxg3 Bg5 25. Rcd1 Qg4 26. Nf1 Nf4 27. Be3 Nh3+ 28. Kg2 Rd6 29. Nd2 Be2
30. Bxg5 Nxg5 31. Qe3 Bxd1 32. Nc4 Bf3+ 33. Kg1 Rf6 34. Ne5 Nh3+ 35. Kf1 Bh1+ 0-1


[Event "?"]
[Site "Naleczow"]
[Date "1979.??.??"]
[White "Szymczak,Zbigniew "]
[Black "Prandstetter,Eduard "]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A04"]
[Round "?"]

1. Nf3 b5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 e6 4. O-O Be7 5. c4 O-O 6. b3 c5 7. Bb2 Nc6
8. e3 bxc4 9. bxc4 Qb6 10. Qb3 Na5 11. Qxb6 axb6 1/2-1/2

[Event "?"]
[Site "Erevan"]
[Date "1976.??.??"]
[White "Csom "]
[Black "Romanishin,Oleg "]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A05"]
[Round "?"]

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. g3 b5 3. Bg2 e6 4. O-O c5 5. d3 Bb7 6. e4 d6 7. Nbd2 Nc6
8. h3 Be7 9. Nh2 Qb6 10. Kh1 d5 11. a4 dxe4 12. axb5 Qxb5 13. dxe4 Rd8 14. Re1 c4
15. f4 e5 16. c3 O-O 17. Qa4 Qxa4 18. Rxa4 Nh5 19. Ndf1 exf4 20. Bxf4 Bh4 21. Rea1 Rd3
22. Nf3 Nxf4 23. gxf4 Bf2 24. Rxc4 Rfd8 25. Kh2 Bb6 26. Rca4 f6 27. e5 fxe5 28. Nxe5 Nxe5
29. Bxb7 Nf3+ 30. Kh1 Nh4 31. Bg2 R8d6 32. f5 Nxf5 33. Rf4 Rf6 34. Rf3 Rxf3 35. Bxf3 g6
36. Bd5+ Kg7 37. b4 h5 38. Rd1 Kh6 39. c4 Bd4 40. c5 Bf2 41. Ra1 1/2-1/2
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #13 - 04/06/11 at 11:01:11
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Off-topic question: If Black has the 1.Nf3 Nf6 2.c4 b6 3.g3 Bb7 4.Bg2 g6 system in his Black repertoire, can he also play this way against the King's Indian Attack (1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 b6 3.Bg2 Bb7 4.0-0 g6 5.d3 Bg7)? On a quick glance it appears that 6.e4 d6 7.Nbd2 0-0 8.c3 c5 is about equal, though ideally Black would want his b-pawn on b5, I suppose.
  

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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #12 - 04/06/11 at 08:51:29
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Don't engines still have non trivial problems with trapped pieces? It doesn't seem that the bishop on a8 is going to get out alive so more or less material equality.

If it isn't then walk the computer down the lines a bit and the evaluation should pick up when it notices this. Or, in the way of computers, it might find some contrived way to rescue it Smiley

Do have to say that e6 does seem an odd move and the whole e6/c6 etc set up rather artificial.
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #11 - 04/05/11 at 17:02:11
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I was looking at the line because it seems to lead to an unbalanced game which would be very unpleasent for one of my coming opponents who is looking for a quiet positional game with 1Nf3 and 2 g3 and later c4. Hence, the variation could be a “trap” to get him to unknown territory. But of course I do not want to play an unsound exc-sacrifice and that’s why I was looking for some advice on the line. Anyone know it or know of good games with it? (I found a game with Aronian on the black side but in that game white did not take on b5).
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #10 - 04/05/11 at 03:15:16
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Quote:
After 3...Bb7 Black has to reckon with 4.Na3!? which often worked well. After 3...e6 4.Na3 is totally pointless because of 4...b4 5.Nc4 d5 (6.Na5 hits air now).


4. Na3 isn't a theoretical threat - white often uses it a couple moves later anyway.

Even black's most blatantly obvious defense is sufficient for him - 4...b4 5. Nc4 a5 - that's not a good sign for white's fourth move having punch to it.
  

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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #9 - 04/04/11 at 07:45:32
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BPaulsen wrote on 04/04/11 at 05:26:46:
Larsen_fan wrote on 04/03/11 at 22:08:03:
Hi

A very interesting line seems to be 1 Nf3 - Nf6 2 g3 - b5 3 Bg2 - e6 4 Nd4 - c6 5 Nxb5 - cxb5 6 Bxa8 - d5 Does anyone know this line? What is whites critical continuations? maybe 7 a4 - b4 or 7 c4 I was only able to find a few games with this and black seemed to do pretty well but my engine says huge white advantage. 


3...Bb7 is normal. No idea why black would play 3...e6 - even if he gets compensation (B+N versus R+2 pawns) it seems unnecessary.


After 3...Bb7 Black has to reckon with 4.Na3!? which often worked well. After 3...e6 4.Na3 is totally pointless because of 4...b4 5.Nc4 d5 (6.Na5 hits air now).
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #8 - 04/04/11 at 05:26:46
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Larsen_fan wrote on 04/03/11 at 22:08:03:
Hi

A very interesting line seems to be 1 Nf3 - Nf6 2 g3 - b5 3 Bg2 - e6 4 Nd4 - c6 5 Nxb5 - cxb5 6 Bxa8 - d5 Does anyone know this line? What is whites critical continuations? maybe 7 a4 - b4 or 7 c4 I was only able to find a few games with this and black seemed to do pretty well but my engine says huge white advantage. 


3...Bb7 is normal. No idea why black would play 3...e6 - even if he gets compensation (B+N versus R+2 pawns) it seems unnecessary.
  

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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #7 - 04/03/11 at 22:08:03
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Hi

A very interesting line seems to be 1 Nf3 - Nf6 2 g3 - b5 3 Bg2 - e6 4 Nd4 - c6 5 Nxb5 - cxb5 6 Bxa8 - d5 Does anyone know this line? What is whites critical continuations? maybe 7 a4 - b4 or 7 c4 I was only able to find a few games with this and black seemed to do pretty well but my engine says huge white advantage.
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #6 - 02/07/11 at 22:05:02
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I think that the Spasskij variation is great!  Smiley
Black can play to win Cheesy
The battle is bloody!  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5
Reply #5 - 12/14/10 at 10:25:20
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Quote:
1.Nf3 Nf6 2.g3 g6 3.b4 Bg7 4.Bb2 c6 5.Bg2 a5!? 6.a3 ab4 7.ab4 Qb6


Those who play the sequence 1 b4 c6 usually play 2 e3 or 2 c4 with the idea of meeting 2.. a5 with 3 b5.

I would expect something similar would be played in these 2 .. b5 lines.

Another idea perhaps is 1 Nf3 Nf6 2 g3 b5 3 a4 b4 4 c4 reaching a little explored position whether or not Black takes ep
  
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