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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Curiousity in the Queen's Indian (Read 67647 times)
Mainline_Novelty
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #83 - 02/28/16 at 18:51:50
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Oh, I'd overlooked that 15 Rfe1+ Be7 16 Nh4! Nd4 17 Nxf5! is winning for White (because after 17...Kf8 18 a4!!, and Black must either lose his a8 rook for free after 18...Nc7 19 Bxc7, or play 18...Nd4? and allow 19 Bd6)
  

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Mainline_Novelty
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #82 - 02/28/16 at 18:47:57
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An old thread, I know, but [1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Bb7 5. Bg2 c5 6. d5 exd5 7. cxd5 Bxd5 8. Nc3 Bc6 9. e4 Nxe4 10. Nxe4 Bxe4 11. Qe2 Qe7 12. O-O Nc6 13. Bf4 Bf5 14. Qb5] 14...Qd8! planning to complete development and castle seems safe enough for Black.
  

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BobbyDigital80
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #81 - 12/08/13 at 02:45:39
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tony37 wrote on 12/07/13 at 15:57:47:
BobbyDigital80 wrote on 12/07/13 at 15:45:59:
[quote author=37001212610 link=1292017017/74#74 date=1382524856]I believe 10.Nxe4 Bxe4 11.Qe2 Qe7 12.0-0 Nc6! 13.Bf4 Bf5! is extremely fine for black.

I think you're exaggerating here, I happen to have analysed 14.Qb5 Be6 15.Rad1 Qd8 16.Ng5 a6 and I think 17.Qa4 is clearly better than 17.Qd3
(I agree that white has nothing special after 10.Nd5)


Yes, you're right. 17.Qa4 is much better. Then 17...b5 18.Qa3 Qb6 19.Nxe6 fxe6 20.Rfe1 c4 21.Qf3 0-0-0 22.Rxd7! Kxd7 and then 23.Qd5+!!. What a funny idea. Qb5-a4-a3-f3-d5. What bad luck for black! I guess this line is just doomed. I'll stick with 4...Ba6 Smiley
  
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tony37
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #80 - 12/07/13 at 15:57:47
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BobbyDigital80 wrote on 12/07/13 at 15:45:59:
[quote author=37001212610 link=1292017017/74#74 date=1382524856]I believe 10.Nxe4 Bxe4 11.Qe2 Qe7 12.0-0 Nc6! 13.Bf4 Bf5! is extremely fine for black.

I think you're exaggerating here, I happen to have analysed 14.Qb5 Be6 15.Rad1 Qd8 16.Ng5 a6 and I think 17.Qa4 is clearly better than 17.Qd3
(I agree that white has nothing special after 10.Nd5)
  
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BobbyDigital80
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #79 - 12/07/13 at 15:45:59
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Vass wrote on 10/23/13 at 10:40:56:
@ Tony37
10.Nd5!? (instead of the original 10.Nxe4... in your game against Mark Eldridge) seems like an improvement to me.  Wink


This line is back in business for Black. White has nothing special after 10.Nd5. Black just plays 10...Be7 and what's white's idea?
Even the main line that people have been giving here is fine for black. The result is an endgame where white has two rooks against rook and bishop plus a pawn, and it's basically an equal endgame. I'd prefer to be black actually as it's possible for him to mobilize his pawns. I believe 10.Nxe4 Bxe4 11.Qe2 Qe7 12.0-0 Nc6! 13.Bf4 Bf5! is extremely fine for black.
Here's a sample line of the endgame:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Bb7 5. Bg2 c5 6. d5 exd5 7. cxd5 Bxd5 8. Nc3 Bc6 9. e4 Nxe4 10. Nxe4 Bxe4 11. Qe2 Qe7 12. O-O Nc6 13. Bf4 Bf5 14. Qb5 Be6 15. Rad1 Qd8 16. Ng5 a6 17. Qd3 Rc8 18. Qxa6 Be7 19. Nxe6 fxe6 20. Rfe1 Nd4 21. Bb7 O-O 22. Bxc8 Qxc8 23. Qxc8 Rxc8 24. Kg2 Kf7 25. Be5 Bf6 26. f4 d5 27. Bxd4 Bxd4 28. Re2 Ra8 29. a3 g6 30. Rde1 Re8 31. a4 c4 32. h3 h5 33. g4 hxg4 34. hxg4 Bg7 35. Rd1 Ra8 36. f5 exf5 37. Rxd5 Rxa4 38. Rd7+ Kf8 39. gxf5 gxf5 40. Rf2 Ra5 41. Rc2 Rb5 42. Rxc4 Rxb2+ 43. Kf3 Rb3+ 44. Kf4 Rc3 45. Ra4 Rc8 =

And here's a sample line with the 10.Nd5 move.

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Bb7 5. Bg2 c5 6. d5 exd5 7. cxd5 Bxd5 8. Nc3 Bc6 9. e4 Nxe4 10. Nd5 Be7 11. O-O O-O 12. Re1 f5 13. Bf4 Bf6 14. Qb3 Kh8 15. Rad1 Na6 16. Nxf6 Qxf6 17. Ne5 d5 18. Nxc6 Qxc6 19. Qxd5 Qxd5 20. Rxd5 Nb4 21. Rd7 Nf6 22. Bxa8 Nxd7 23. Bf3 Nf6 24. Re7 Nfd5 25. Bxd5 Nxd5 26. Rxa7 Nxf4 27. gxf4 Kg8 28. Kg2 Rf6 =








  
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Vass
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #78 - 10/23/13 at 21:23:07
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Now, in home, after running an engine I see what you mean.
Well, at least, it looked promising.  Cool
Anyway, the position is far from clear, so if I find the time I'll run an IDeA analysis here to be sure about the right evaluation.
The problem is...my set of nearly 50 correspondence chess games that await for analysis. Every year I swear off taking too many games to play...and still the same!  Embarrassed
  
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tony37
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #77 - 10/23/13 at 13:40:53
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one of the points of 10.Nxe4 Bxe4 11.Qe2 Qe7 12.O-O Nc6 13.Bf4 is that black can't castle kingside (or at least it's very difficult) and castling queenside is very dangerous because the two bishops are pointing there and the queen can enter on a6 or b5, but ... keeping the king in the center is also very dangerous, so OTB this is a total nightmare for black, in correspondence deep analysis is required to survive, there are several dangerous lines white can try (but I think there is a defense)
and I don't see comparable problems for black after 10.Nd5 Be7 11.O-O O-O 12.Re1 f5 13.Bf4 Bf6, I don't think Nc7 is much of a threat as giving up an exchange is viable strategy with 2 pawns up
  
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Vass
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #76 - 10/23/13 at 12:51:10
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Well, I don't have a powerful computer at hand right now, but I think black is already in trouble.  Grin
But seriously, this move disconnects the black bishop on c6 which is defending the black knight at e4. Next, Bf4 threatens Nd5-c7 already. Black is about to face the white 0-0 and Re1, so Be7 is the only move, I suppose.
So, after 10...Be7 it follows 11.0-0 0-0 12.Re1 f5 (seems forced) 13.Bf4.... and though I don't have an engine at hand right now, I think white has Qb3, Rad1 and Ne5 thereafter. My own evaluation of this position is that white has full compensation for the pawns. I'm sure white can achieve much if playing OTB. As for the correspondence chess, I think serious analysis is needed.
  
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tony37
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #75 - 10/23/13 at 11:28:14
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Vass wrote on 10/23/13 at 10:40:56:
@ Tony37
10.Nd5!? (instead of the original 10.Nxe4... in your game against Mark Eldridge) seems like an improvement to me.  Wink

thanks, I have to admit I didn't look at other moves at that point because I was very confident in the previous games
and to be honest I don't immediately see the point of 10.Nd5, doesn't black just castle kingside and is more or less OK? but I'm no doubt missing something, you wouldn't say so if there wasn't something there
  
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Vass
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #74 - 10/23/13 at 10:40:56
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@ Tony37
10.Nd5!? (instead of the original 10.Nxe4... in your game against Mark Eldridge) seems like an improvement to me.  Wink
  
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tony37
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #73 - 05/28/13 at 22:43:07
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tony37 wrote on 03/01/13 at 22:58:35:
I see John Emms talks about this "5...c5!?" move in his update, he also mentions 7.cxd5 but in the game Sargissian-Socko the move 9.e4!! wasn't played so I guess he simply didn't read this thread. But he's not the only one who doesn't know about this because 2 of my correspondence chess opponents walked right into this line (games ongoing)

my two games ended in draws, but I think my opponents just defended well, I don't have the feeling I could have improved as white somewhere


  
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #72 - 05/28/13 at 21:24:24
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And here is another one from a Russian correspondence chess server:



Wink
  
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FirebrandX
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #71 - 05/16/13 at 17:20:31
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GM Sam Shankland also fell victim to the Fric variation (I'm calling it that since he was the first to use it) in the recent US Chess Championship. He confessed to having no clue about 7.cxd5 line:

  
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tony37
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #70 - 04/11/13 at 16:25:50
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this is the game

  
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Ametanoitos
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Re: Curiousity in the Queen's Indian
Reply #69 - 04/11/13 at 06:47:01
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Check for Akdag-Palo, Danish Ch 2013. Probably the first GM to lose in this line after the double pawn sac?  Wink
  
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