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Normal Topic Looking for a system with g3 against KID (Read 5185 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Looking for a system with g3 against KID
Reply #7 - 01/23/11 at 21:52:20
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10. c5 has also been around for quite a few decades.  In that particular variation, I'm accustomed to seeing 12...Qa6 (as in Yusupov-Kasparov 1990) considered best.
  
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JEH
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Re: Looking for a system with g3 against KID
Reply #6 - 01/23/11 at 19:08:29
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John wrote on 01/22/11 at 13:38:38:


1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 O-O 5. Nc3 d6 6. Nf3 Nbd7 7. O-O e5 8. e4 c6 9. h3 Qb6

...

Does anyone have an idea?


10. c5 dc 11. de Ne8 12. Na4 Qc7 13. e6 fe 14. Ng5 Ne5 15. Nxc5

Liking White here.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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TN
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Re: Looking for a system with g3 against KID
Reply #5 - 01/23/11 at 18:58:25
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John wrote on 01/22/11 at 13:38:38:
I tried Avrukh's line. I hate to say it but it doesn't make too much sense to me.
I even developed a Fischer like saying of my own. h3 is always bad for White against the KID.
I don't really like Re1 as well, appears to be better placed on f1 and support a future f2-f4

Besides, the whole structure is timid. You are required to have long lasting patience but the right timing never seems to come. Ever!

Once that ...Nh5 gets there it's almost impossible to play f4 and with that new ...Qb6 line I really don't see anything I like.

Anyway, Here's a game I just LOST:

[Event "ICC"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2011.01.22"]
[White "MusiqueWand"]
[Black "Uwak"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2362"]
[BlackElo "2324"]
[ECO "E69"]
[Opening "King's Indian"]
[Variation "Fianchetto, classical main line"]
[TimeControl "5400+30"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 O-O 5. Nc3 d6 6. Nf3 Nbd7 7. O-O e5 8. e4 c6 9. h3 Qb6 10. Re1 exd4 11. Nxd4 Re8 12. Re2 Qa5 13. Bd2 Nh5 14. Nf3 Ne5 15. Nxe5 dxe5 16. Nd5 Qd8 17. Ne3 Be6 18. Bb4 Qxd1+ 19. Rxd1 Rad8 20. Ree1 Bf8 21. Bxf8 Kxf8 22. b3 Ng7 23. c5 Rd4 24. Nc2 Rd7 25. Rxd7 Bxd7 26. Rd1 Ke7 27. Ne3 Rd8 28. Nc4 f6 29. b4 Ne6 30. Rf1 Nd4 31. f4 Be6 32. Nd6 b6 33. f5 Bg8 34. g4 g5 0-1

Anyway, I can't find all the best moves like Rybla can and I can't see 20 moves in advance ( like Rybka can) so I need another system WITHOUT h3!

Does anyone have an idea?


Avrukh himself stated in his book that this variation is objectively better for White, but if White makes an  inaccuracy in the first 15-20 moves then Black obtains excellent counterplay.

Therefore, you should commit the bolded moves of 9...Qb6 chapter of Avrukh's book to memory if you want to play this line of the Fianchetto Variation of the KID. Otherwise you might want to look at 10.c5 or even 7.Qc2 e5 8.Rd1.
  

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ErictheRed
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Re: Looking for a system with g3 against KID
Reply #4 - 01/23/11 at 16:18:25
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While the g3 systems are good, there's always the possibility that they don't suit you as a player.  I wouldn't worry too much about an ICC game, and I don't want to advocate switching openings every time you lose a game, but perhaps you should investigate a lot of different lines against the KID?  Especially on ICC where you aren't risking money or your real rating.
  
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MNb
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Re: Looking for a system with g3 against KID
Reply #3 - 01/23/11 at 11:19:53
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kylemeister wrote on 01/22/11 at 16:49:36:
Indeed.

It's the 21st century -- all that matters is Rybka, ICC and the latest repertoire book. Or so it often seems.

Something like developing your own ideas, doing your own analysis and trying them in practice seems to be something of the past.
I belong to the past as well. I would do a database research and look for something without h2-h3 and Rf1-e1 that suits me better. Then I would play quickly through at least a dozen of games after which the real fun begins: analysis.
Still I'm foolish enough to do the first step myself - my curiosity is incurable.
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 d6 5.e4 Nbd7/0-0 6.f4 is something truely original.
Euwe 40 years ago recommended something like 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 d6 5.e4 and 6.Ne2. He knew a few things about stuff like this. He also recommended 4.Qc2 against the NID and the Petrov when they were out of vogue.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: Looking for a system with g3 against KID
Reply #2 - 01/22/11 at 16:49:36
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Indeed.

It's the 21st century -- all that matters is Rybka, ICC and the latest repertoire book.  Or so it often seems.

One thing I'm reminded of is Nigel Davies writing some years ago (in one of his "Power Chess" books, I think) about how he came to enjoy playing White in such positions (perhaps "such positions" = Boleslavsky Wall, to use Soltis' term from "Pawn Structure Chess" for the structure created by Black playing ...exd4).
  
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Re: Looking for a system with g3 against KID
Reply #1 - 01/22/11 at 14:56:07
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Well, since h3 is considered an integral part of Whites setup to control g4, perhaps you should look for a different variation.

Also I don´t understand why you call 9... Qb6 new since it is one of the classical ways to play against the fianchetto since at least 1950 or so with numerous games played by GMs.

Looking at your game the sequence 13.Bd2 Nh5 14.Nf3 Ne5 15.Nxe5 dxe5 seems not to be too challenging for Black since you have solved the problem of the backward d-pawn for him and at the same time you created a big hole on d4 for yourself.

It is surely no necessary to play like Rybka in these positions. Take a look at some games by strong players and absorb the typical plans.
  
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John
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Looking for a system with g3 against KID
01/22/11 at 13:38:38
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I tried Avrukh's line. I hate to say it but it doesn't make too much sense to me.
I even developed a Fischer like saying of my own. h3 is always bad for White against the KID.
I don't really like Re1 as well, appears to be better placed on f1 and support a future f2-f4

Besides, the whole structure is timid. You are required to have long lasting patience but the right timing never seems to come. Ever!

Once that ...Nh5 gets there it's almost impossible to play f4 and with that new ...Qb6 line I really don't see anything I like.

Anyway, Here's a game I just LOST:

[Event "ICC"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2011.01.22"]
[White "MusiqueWand"]
[Black "Uwak"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2362"]
[BlackElo "2324"]
[ECO "E69"]
[Opening "King's Indian"]
[Variation "Fianchetto, classical main line"]
[TimeControl "5400+30"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 O-O 5. Nc3 d6 6. Nf3 Nbd7 7. O-O e5 8. e4 c6 9. h3 Qb6 10. Re1 exd4 11. Nxd4 Re8 12. Re2 Qa5 13. Bd2 Nh5 14. Nf3 Ne5 15. Nxe5 dxe5 16. Nd5 Qd8 17. Ne3 Be6 18. Bb4 Qxd1+ 19. Rxd1 Rad8 20. Ree1 Bf8 21. Bxf8 Kxf8 22. b3 Ng7 23. c5 Rd4 24. Nc2 Rd7 25. Rxd7 Bxd7 26. Rd1 Ke7 27. Ne3 Rd8 28. Nc4 f6 29. b4 Ne6 30. Rf1 Nd4 31. f4 Be6 32. Nd6 b6 33. f5 Bg8 34. g4 g5 0-1

Anyway, I can't find all the best moves like Rybla can and I can't see 20 moves in advance ( like Rybka can) so I need another system WITHOUT h3!

Does anyone have an idea?
  

Rating, roughly 2200.
I run a Chess Blog called ‘The Unemployed Dragon’ at: http://musiquewandchess.blogspot.com/
I play 1. Nf3 and the Catalan as White and the French and QGD as Black
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