Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Avrukh KID doesn't work?! (Read 15637 times)
Spree K
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 26
Joined: 10/22/08
Gender: Male
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #17 - 06/03/11 at 04:23:43
Post Tools
Honestly, I think an Avrukh repertoire player is better off going for the 8. h3 lines. Yes, there's 8...Bd7, but there a numerous ways for White to play for an advantage there, e.g., after 9. dxe5.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
punter
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 78
Joined: 05/18/11
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #16 - 05/30/11 at 14:18:21
Post Tools
Yeah, imo Qd3 line doesn't work. 14..Kg7 is dead equal and from practical point of view I would even prefer black.

I find it strange that Avrukh doesn't mention this move as it's found by Houdini after 10 second on my very weak hardware.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fluffy
Full Member
***
Offline


International Master

Posts: 237
Location: USA
Joined: 08/01/05
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #15 - 02/03/11 at 02:34:51
Post Tools
there are positions where the weakened b6-square makes a difference, for instance in the last line of the chapter White has the important move Nd5-b6 available.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jay
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 212
Location: USA
Joined: 04/18/09
Gender: Male
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #14 - 02/02/11 at 20:50:25
Post Tools
dali wrote on 02/02/11 at 02:08:22:
I repeat, it's explained in the book.

everyone here wants al the information from the books for nothing. it's like 25 bucks. if you're so interested, go get it!

Your brush strokes are too wide.  Many of us reading the thread have both volumes.  (It does not mean we have read them).  As easy as it is to read, it is still quite massive.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
huibui
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 82
Location: Ulm
Joined: 12/14/08
Gender: Male
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #13 - 02/02/11 at 16:14:45
Post Tools
F22 wrote on 02/02/11 at 07:03:47:
dali wrote on 02/02/11 at 02:08:22:
I repeat, it's explained in the book.

everyone here wants al the information from the books for nothing. it's like 25 bucks. if you're so interested, go get it!


I am looking at a friend's copy and I can not find the explanation. Can you give me the page number?


I also tried to look it up and cannot find an explanation. Huh I guess the slightly weakened b6-square must make a difference, however, similar to the Catalan-line mentioned in the first volume (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1464716).
  

You tell the young people of today that...
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #12 - 02/02/11 at 11:53:59
Post Tools
Quote:
Avrukh KID doesn't work?!


No matter how good a repertoire is, it won't work if you don't play the best moves afterwards. Getting a good position out of the opening is just one of several parts of the battle.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
F22
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 306
Joined: 07/16/09
Gender: Male
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #11 - 02/02/11 at 07:03:47
Post Tools
dali wrote on 02/02/11 at 02:08:22:
I repeat, it's explained in the book.

everyone here wants al the information from the books for nothing. it's like 25 bucks. if you're so interested, go get it!


I am looking at a friend's copy and I can not find the explanation. Can you give me the page number?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dali
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 30
Joined: 08/18/09
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #10 - 02/02/11 at 02:08:22
Post Tools
I repeat, it's explained in the book.

everyone here wants al the information from the books for nothing. it's like 25 bucks. if you're so interested, go get it!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
F22
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 306
Joined: 07/16/09
Gender: Male
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #9 - 02/02/11 at 01:52:01
Post Tools
dali wrote on 02/01/11 at 20:20:07:
it's explained in the book. maybe buy it!?


Consider: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 d6 5. Nc3 O-O 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. O-O What is the difference between: 7. ... e5 8. dxe5 fxe5 9. Qxd8 Rxd8 10. Bg5 and 7. ... a6 8. Qd3 e5 9. dxe5 fxe5 10. Qxd8 Rxd8 11. Bg5 ? Does he answer that question in the book? Because as far I gather it seems he endorses the second line but not the first one.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dali
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 30
Joined: 08/18/09
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #8 - 02/01/11 at 20:20:07
Post Tools
F22 wrote on 02/01/11 at 20:15:44:
ferdia wrote on 01/31/11 at 13:36:45:
Can someone explain to me if there is a difference in Black's favour (after 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 Nf3 00 5 g3 d6 6 Bg2 Nc6 7 00) between 7 ...e5 8 de and 7...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 de. Arvukh of course recommends the second line but does Black actually benefit from the absence of a6, assuming that queens come off? I understand that 7 ...e5 8 d5 favours Black compared with 7 ...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 d5 because the knight gets on a worse route in the former case (e7 rather than b4) but I am curious about the comparative value of the two queen trades. Thanks and apologies if this has already been answered somewhere.


Great question! I would like to see an explanation too.


it's explained in the book. maybe buy it!?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
F22
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 306
Joined: 07/16/09
Gender: Male
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #7 - 02/01/11 at 20:15:44
Post Tools
ferdia wrote on 01/31/11 at 13:36:45:
Can someone explain to me if there is a difference in Black's favour (after 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 Nf3 00 5 g3 d6 6 Bg2 Nc6 7 00) between 7 ...e5 8 de and 7...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 de. Arvukh of course recommends the second line but does Black actually benefit from the absence of a6, assuming that queens come off? I understand that 7 ...e5 8 d5 favours Black compared with 7 ...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 d5 because the knight gets on a worse route in the former case (e7 rather than b4) but I am curious about the comparative value of the two queen trades. Thanks and apologies if this has already been answered somewhere.


Great question! I would like to see an explanation too.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4501
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #6 - 02/01/11 at 20:04:43
Post Tools
It's been my impression that the general thrust of theory in recent times has been that the Panno should be more like = than +=.  If some particular repertoire book fails to overturn that, it's not exactly surprising.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jay
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 212
Location: USA
Joined: 04/18/09
Gender: Male
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #5 - 02/01/11 at 19:22:35
Post Tools
Leo Chessi wrote on 02/01/11 at 09:50:34:
Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/31/11 at 04:54:27:
There is some hope. In otb chess, KID players hate playing for "easy" draws. They want blood.

This is just an idle observation.


And an astute one... I am still in the process of healing my KID rabies [twitch] and accepting the warm glow of the occasional half point [twitch twitch].  The psychology here cuts both ways, though... now that I am no longer committed to unbalancing the position at any cost [shudder], I find myself noticing the little positional mistakes my opponents make.  The KID doesn't always have to be played like a bull in a china shop... sometimes Black can be the matador [eyes rolling back in head, foam accumulating at sides of mouth].

Naaahhhhhhh, who am I kidding.... run for your lives, queen pawn weaklings!  Bwahahahahaha.  (This is a joke. It is only a joke.  Take no offense.)

In all seriousness, though, the initial post's complaint doesn't make too terribly much sense to me.  White plays dxe5 against the KID and then complains about a draw?  If you don't want a draw, don't play the Exchange Variation.
I see the exchange as playable, but doesn't it benefit whoever ends up with control of the file?  I never understood why black would play Qxd1 when letting white play qxd8 allows the rook to own the file.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Leo Chessi
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love Beer!

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/08/09
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #4 - 02/01/11 at 09:50:34
Post Tools
Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/31/11 at 04:54:27:
There is some hope. In otb chess, KID players hate playing for "easy" draws. They want blood.

This is just an idle observation.


And an astute one... I am still in the process of healing my KID rabies [twitch] and accepting the warm glow of the occasional half point [twitch twitch].  The psychology here cuts both ways, though... now that I am no longer committed to unbalancing the position at any cost [shudder], I find myself noticing the little positional mistakes my opponents make.  The KID doesn't always have to be played like a bull in a china shop... sometimes Black can be the matador [eyes rolling back in head, foam accumulating at sides of mouth].

Naaahhhhhhh, who am I kidding.... run for your lives, queen pawn weaklings!  Bwahahahahaha.  (This is a joke. It is only a joke.  Take no offense.)

In all seriousness, though, the initial post's complaint doesn't make too terribly much sense to me.  White plays dxe5 against the KID and then complains about a draw?  If you don't want a draw, don't play the Exchange Variation.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ferdia
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 10
Location: Liverpool
Joined: 11/27/09
Gender: Male
Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #3 - 01/31/11 at 13:36:45
Post Tools
Can someone explain to me if there is a difference in Black's favour (after 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 Nf3 00 5 g3 d6 6 Bg2 Nc6 7 00) between 7 ...e5 8 de and 7...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 de. Arvukh of course recommends the second line but does Black actually benefit from the absence of a6, assuming that queens come off? I understand that 7 ...e5 8 d5 favours Black compared with 7 ...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 d5 because the knight gets on a worse route in the former case (e7 rather than b4) but I am curious about the comparative value of the two queen trades. Thanks and apologies if this has already been answered somewhere.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo