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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Avrukh KID doesn't work?! (Read 24346 times)
Spree K
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #17 - 06/03/11 at 04:23:43
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Honestly, I think an Avrukh repertoire player is better off going for the 8. h3 lines. Yes, there's 8...Bd7, but there a numerous ways for White to play for an advantage there, e.g., after 9. dxe5.
  
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punter
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #16 - 05/30/11 at 14:18:21
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Yeah, imo Qd3 line doesn't work. 14..Kg7 is dead equal and from practical point of view I would even prefer black.

I find it strange that Avrukh doesn't mention this move as it's found by Houdini after 10 second on my very weak hardware.
  
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fluffy
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #15 - 02/03/11 at 02:34:51
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there are positions where the weakened b6-square makes a difference, for instance in the last line of the chapter White has the important move Nd5-b6 available.
  
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Jay
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #14 - 02/02/11 at 20:50:25
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dali wrote on 02/02/11 at 02:08:22:
I repeat, it's explained in the book. 

everyone here wants al the information from the books for nothing. it's like 25 bucks. if you're so interested, go get it!

Your brush strokes are too wide.  Many of us reading the thread have both volumes.  (It does not mean we have read them).  As easy as it is to read, it is still quite massive.
  
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huibui
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #13 - 02/02/11 at 16:14:45
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F22 wrote on 02/02/11 at 07:03:47:
dali wrote on 02/02/11 at 02:08:22:
I repeat, it's explained in the book. 

everyone here wants al the information from the books for nothing. it's like 25 bucks. if you're so interested, go get it!


I am looking at a friend's copy and I can not find the explanation. Can you give me the page number?


I also tried to look it up and cannot find an explanation. Huh I guess the slightly weakened b6-square must make a difference, however, similar to the Catalan-line mentioned in the first volume (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1464716).
  

You tell the young people of today that...
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TN
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #12 - 02/02/11 at 11:53:59
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Quote:
Avrukh KID doesn't work?!


No matter how good a repertoire is, it won't work if you don't play the best moves afterwards. Getting a good position out of the opening is just one of several parts of the battle.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
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F22
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #11 - 02/02/11 at 07:03:47
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dali wrote on 02/02/11 at 02:08:22:
I repeat, it's explained in the book. 

everyone here wants al the information from the books for nothing. it's like 25 bucks. if you're so interested, go get it!


I am looking at a friend's copy and I can not find the explanation. Can you give me the page number?
  
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dali
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #10 - 02/02/11 at 02:08:22
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I repeat, it's explained in the book. 

everyone here wants al the information from the books for nothing. it's like 25 bucks. if you're so interested, go get it!
  
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F22
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #9 - 02/02/11 at 01:52:01
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dali wrote on 02/01/11 at 20:20:07:
it's explained in the book. maybe buy it!?


Consider: 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 d6 5. Nc3 O-O 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. O-O What is the difference between: 7. ... e5 8. dxe5 fxe5 9. Qxd8 Rxd8 10. Bg5 and 7. ... a6 8. Qd3 e5 9. dxe5 fxe5 10. Qxd8 Rxd8 11. Bg5 ? Does he answer that question in the book? Because as far I gather it seems he endorses the second line but not the first one.
  
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dali
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #8 - 02/01/11 at 20:20:07
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F22 wrote on 02/01/11 at 20:15:44:
ferdia wrote on 01/31/11 at 13:36:45:
Can someone explain to me if there is a difference in Black's favour (after 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 Nf3 00 5 g3 d6 6 Bg2 Nc6 7 00) between 7 ...e5 8 de and 7...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 de. Arvukh of course recommends the second line but does Black actually benefit from the absence of a6, assuming that queens come off? I understand that 7 ...e5 8 d5 favours Black compared with 7 ...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 d5 because the knight gets on a worse route in the former case (e7 rather than b4) but I am curious about the comparative value of the two queen trades. Thanks and apologies if this has already been answered somewhere.


Great question! I would like to see an explanation too.


it's explained in the book. maybe buy it!?
  
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F22
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #7 - 02/01/11 at 20:15:44
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ferdia wrote on 01/31/11 at 13:36:45:
Can someone explain to me if there is a difference in Black's favour (after 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 Nf3 00 5 g3 d6 6 Bg2 Nc6 7 00) between 7 ...e5 8 de and 7...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 de. Arvukh of course recommends the second line but does Black actually benefit from the absence of a6, assuming that queens come off? I understand that 7 ...e5 8 d5 favours Black compared with 7 ...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 d5 because the knight gets on a worse route in the former case (e7 rather than b4) but I am curious about the comparative value of the two queen trades. Thanks and apologies if this has already been answered somewhere.


Great question! I would like to see an explanation too.
  
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #6 - 02/01/11 at 20:04:43
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It's been my impression that the general thrust of theory in recent times has been that the Panno should be more like = than +=.  If some particular repertoire book fails to overturn that, it's not exactly surprising.
  
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #5 - 02/01/11 at 19:22:35
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Leo Chessi wrote on 02/01/11 at 09:50:34:
Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/31/11 at 04:54:27:
There is some hope. In otb chess, KID players hate playing for "easy" draws. They want blood.

This is just an idle observation.


And an astute one... I am still in the process of healing my KID rabies [twitch] and accepting the warm glow of the occasional half point [twitch twitch].  The psychology here cuts both ways, though... now that I am no longer committed to unbalancing the position at any cost [shudder], I find myself noticing the little positional mistakes my opponents make.  The KID doesn't always have to be played like a bull in a china shop... sometimes Black can be the matador [eyes rolling back in head, foam accumulating at sides of mouth].

Naaahhhhhhh, who am I kidding.... run for your lives, queen pawn weaklings!  Bwahahahahaha.  (This is a joke. It is only a joke.  Take no offense.)

In all seriousness, though, the initial post's complaint doesn't make too terribly much sense to me.  White plays dxe5 against the KID and then complains about a draw?  If you don't want a draw, don't play the Exchange Variation.
I see the exchange as playable, but doesn't it benefit whoever ends up with control of the file?  I never understood why black would play Qxd1 when letting white play qxd8 allows the rook to own the file.
  
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Leo Chessi
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #4 - 02/01/11 at 09:50:34
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/31/11 at 04:54:27:
There is some hope. In otb chess, KID players hate playing for "easy" draws. They want blood.

This is just an idle observation.


And an astute one... I am still in the process of healing my KID rabies [twitch] and accepting the warm glow of the occasional half point [twitch twitch].  The psychology here cuts both ways, though... now that I am no longer committed to unbalancing the position at any cost [shudder], I find myself noticing the little positional mistakes my opponents make.  The KID doesn't always have to be played like a bull in a china shop... sometimes Black can be the matador [eyes rolling back in head, foam accumulating at sides of mouth].

Naaahhhhhhh, who am I kidding.... run for your lives, queen pawn weaklings!  Bwahahahahaha.  (This is a joke. It is only a joke.  Take no offense.)

In all seriousness, though, the initial post's complaint doesn't make too terribly much sense to me.  White plays dxe5 against the KID and then complains about a draw?  If you don't want a draw, don't play the Exchange Variation.
  
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ferdia
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #3 - 01/31/11 at 13:36:45
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Can someone explain to me if there is a difference in Black's favour (after 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 Nf3 00 5 g3 d6 6 Bg2 Nc6 7 00) between 7 ...e5 8 de and 7...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 de. Arvukh of course recommends the second line but does Black actually benefit from the absence of a6, assuming that queens come off? I understand that 7 ...e5 8 d5 favours Black compared with 7 ...a6 8 Qd3 e5 9 d5 because the knight gets on a worse route in the former case (e7 rather than b4) but I am curious about the comparative value of the two queen trades. Thanks and apologies if this has already been answered somewhere.
  
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #2 - 01/31/11 at 08:55:57
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Probably White has a slight edge also after the 14...Kg7 move but in corr chess even bigger advantages are not convertable to a full point. Starting as White against the KID with a safe position that you should win or draw is good news. Not ideal though, i understand.
  
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Seth_Xoma
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Re: Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
Reply #1 - 01/31/11 at 04:54:27
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There is some hope. In otb chess, KID players hate playing for "easy" draws. They want blood.

This is just an idle observation.
  
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Avrukh KID doesn't work?!
01/31/11 at 04:00:19
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Avrukh got everyone re-interested in the old line 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 O-O 5.Nc3 d6 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.O-O a6 8.Qd3!?  which looks really cool and works well as most rabid KID players can't get what they want out this.  But lately everyone plays 8... e5 9.dxe5 dxe5 10.Qxd8 Rxd8 11.Bg5 Re8 12.Rfd1 h6 13.Bxf6 Bxf6 14.Nd2 as per Avrukh the 14...Kg7!? which commits neither to Nd4 nor Be6.  Looks very dull and equal and I found several correspondence games that ended very soon, dull draws.  Since he thought Black equalizes against all other 8 moves isn't this a big problem?  Am I wrong or is his whole line just an easy draw for Black?

-G Cry
  
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