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Normal Topic Winning against the english opening (Read 11528 times)
TopNotch
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Re: Winning against the english opening
Reply #9 - 05/03/11 at 15:33:32
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baeron wrote on 05/03/11 at 14:59:17:
I am facing a similar problem next Thursday. A player about the same strength, who likes it very quiet and seems to prone to overlooking tactical shots at times.
Most often ge goes 1. c4, 2. Nc3, 3. g3

So I'm looking for an aggressive system (maybe even a gambit) in which things can get tactical quite easily and in which White should know a thing or two.

I know it's asking a bit much, but maybe you have some suggestions?


You could consider the following intersting line that I have used from time to time with success.

1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 f5 4.Bg2 Nf6 5.e3 d5!? 6.Nxd5 Nfxd5 7.cxd5 Nb4 8.d3 c6! with a very promising attacking position.

Another positive aspect of this continuation is that it's little known compared to other sidelines you could try and probably no worse than the mainline options available.

Worth a shot I think.

Tops Smiley
  

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baeron
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Re: Winning against the english opening
Reply #8 - 05/03/11 at 14:59:17
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I am facing a similar problem next Thursday. A player about the same strength, who likes it very quiet and seems to prone to overlooking tactical shots at times.
Most often ge goes 1. c4, 2. Nc3, 3. g3

So I'm looking for an aggressive system (maybe even a gambit) in which things can get tactical quite easily and in which White should know a thing or two.

I know it's asking a bit much, but maybe you have some suggestions?
  
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Jay
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Re: Winning against the english opening
Reply #7 - 02/12/11 at 09:09:25
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Markovich wrote on 02/11/11 at 13:58:09:
"I personally do not think queenside challenges are as strong as kingside or central pressure."

Well then, it would seem that the Sicilian is a very weak defense.

But move one is rather soon to talk of Black's becomming agressive, and it mischaracterizes the KID and the Dutch to say that they begin immediate kingside assaults. Either is perfectly viable against 1.c4, of course. Further I think that 1.. .c5 is much more dynamic than you seem to suggest.

I freely admit to being either a class A or B player.  I think your criticism might be a bit strident.  He asked for what people felt, and I answered.  It does not mean that the systems I mentioned (or did not mention) must be played the way I find challenging.  Others may find such play easy and find other variations harder.  At my level, I find those ways of playing those systems more challenging probably because those who play those systems that way are stronger players who seek active positions.
  
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zoo
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Re: Winning against the english opening
Reply #6 - 02/11/11 at 17:02:15
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of course White has a lot of ways to deviate, all of them main lines. Frustrating as it is, you can't constrain White (nor Black) to a single system in the English. This is a main attraction from White's point of view.
  
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TicklyTim
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Re: Winning against the english opening
Reply #5 - 02/11/11 at 15:13:39
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Is 6..Nb6 recommended and not 6..Be6.
Then the line 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.g3 d5 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.Bg2 Nb6
probably allows lines to transpose from
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.g3
as well as 1.c4 e5 2.g3.

Are there any decent ways for white to deviate away from this line (ignoring the 1.Nf3 move order), or is black pretty much guaranteed getting into this line?

If considering the 1.Nf3 move order, I guess if you're an Indian player with 1..Nf6 then you'll need an alternative defence to this. Seems the recommended line only couples for 1..d5 players vs 1.Nf3.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Winning against the english opening
Reply #4 - 02/11/11 at 13:58:09
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"I personally do not think queenside challenges are as strong as kingside or central pressure."

Well then, it would seem that the Sicilian is a very weak defense.

But move one is rather soon to talk of Black's becomming agressive, and it mischaracterizes the KID and the Dutch to say that they begin immediate kingside assaults. Either is perfectly viable against 1.c4, of course. Further I think that 1.. .c5 is much more dynamic than you seem to suggest.
« Last Edit: 02/11/11 at 15:38:25 by Markovich »  

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Jay
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Re: Winning against the english opening
Reply #3 - 02/08/11 at 14:34:34
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TN wrote on 02/08/11 at 06:59:54:
kevinfat wrote on 02/08/11 at 01:19:07:
What are the most aggressive lines to play as black against the  english opening to push for a win? Suppose you're playing Advanced Chess (you are using a computer) so you can afford to go into ultra sharp lines without outright blundering. Then which lines would you pick.


The line that seems to give a lot of English Opening devotees a headache or two is 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.g3 d5. It's very difficult for White to achieve an edge here.

Aggressive?  I agree about the Reversed Sicilian.  It hits hard in the center and calls into question white's ability to control d5 and the center with pawns and pieces.  I also think I might add the Dutch, the KID, or any system that begins an immediate Kingside assault rather than hitting the center, any system that includes f7-f5.  I personally do not think queenside challenges are as strong as kingside or central pressure.  If black wants equality, I would also recommend the Symmetrical English, but this cannot be called immediately aggressive.
  
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Ludde
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Re: Winning against the english opening
Reply #2 - 02/08/11 at 09:21:14
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In my limited experience in cc the reversed dragon often leads to positions where the engines tend to consider blacks position at least equal (actually often slightly better). On the other hand these positions are often not evaluated correctly by the engines and blacks position is overestimated. I guess this is mainly due to the engines strong preference for extra space. Space, or control over more central sqaures, is an easily measurable quantity which fits well with a digital evaulation model. In these positions whites trumphs are essentially long-term and I have played a few games where white gradually assumes the initiative. Still I suspect black can maintain "real" equality with careful play - like in so many other openings.
  
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TN
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Re: Winning against the english opening
Reply #1 - 02/08/11 at 06:59:54
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kevinfat wrote on 02/08/11 at 01:19:07:
What are the most aggressive lines to play as black against the  english opening to push for a win? Suppose you're playing Advanced Chess (you are using a computer) so you can afford to go into ultra sharp lines without outright blundering. Then which lines would you pick.


The line that seems to give a lot of English Opening devotees a headache or two is 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.g3 d5. It's very difficult for White to achieve an edge here.
  

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kevinfat
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Winning against the english opening
02/08/11 at 01:19:07
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What are the most aggressive lines to play as black against the  english opening to push for a win? Suppose you're playing Advanced Chess (you are using a computer) so you can afford to go into ultra sharp lines without outright blundering. Then which lines would you pick.
  
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