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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4? (Read 14937 times)
Ludde
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #15 - 05/17/11 at 10:41:01
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After studying the Carpatian Warrior 2 I have become slightly sceptical about blacks chances in the line 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c5 4.d5 Bc3 5.bc f5 6.e4 fe 7.f3 which was exactly the line Markovich pointed at. Black can keep things under some sort of control by trying to stick a knight on e5, or by the previously mentioned 7..e5 when 8.de is probably not whites best. Even so, to me, white always looks a bit better thanks to the unopposed black-squared bishop. From a practical point of view the line is interesting since if white fails to achieve much in the middlegame that doubled pawn will not go away, but for CC it seems a doubtful choice.
If white, however, refrains from 7.e4 and plays something more toothless like 7.Nf3 black looks at least OK, which probably would be the case in many instances OTB, so as a practical weapon it certainly has some merit.
The book is rich in moves, and poorer in explanations. The evaluations in the end of each line appear to be sometimes slightly biased, but the authors obviously put in a lot of effort.
  
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Ludde
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #14 - 04/10/11 at 21:33:30
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Quote:
Markovich wrote on 04/08/11 at 20:09:46:
Ludde wrote on 04/07/11 at 07:27:07:
Nelson wrote on 02/25/11 at 17:59:15:
Hi,

My personal favourite is 1 d4 g6 2 c4 Bg7 3 Nc3 c5 4 d5 Bc3 5 bc f5................

This line is not as unsound as it looks and great fun to play!!

Regards,

Nelson. Smiley

Apart from the sad fact that white can avoid this by simply playing e4 instead of Nc3 I find this line rather intriguing. Does anyone know if it is covered in any theoretical work? Apart from "the Sniper" that is....


There is a previous thread on this, somewhere.  I once won rather easily with 6.e4! fxe4 7.f3, but my opponent could've played better (though he didn't play 7...exf3?).  I think that those who say that 3.e4 is best are probably right, but this amateur player remains skeptical of the claim that Black is fine after 5...f5 6.e4!


To me Black seems fine after 6...fxe4 7.f3 d6 8.fxe4 Nf6 and he has also 7...e5!? 8.dxe6 Nc6! with complications.


Considering Glenn Snows post regarding where various openings belong I think that the line discussed here conceptually actually is more of a Nimzoindian than anything else, maybe with a dutch twist thanks to 5..f5. Still this must be the place for it.
  
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Glenn Snow
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #13 - 04/09/11 at 20:59:52
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TN wrote on 02/09/11 at 04:56:16:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 02/09/11 at 02:17:39:
If White plays 1. d4 and 2. c4 without ...e4, how to play a pure Modern against this setup? viz. 1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bg7 3. Nc3 or 3. g3, 3. Nf3, without transposing to a King's Indian?


1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.e4 e5 5.Nf3 Nd7 6.Be2 c6 7.0-0 Nh6 and 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.g3 e5 5.Bg2 Nd7 6.Nc3 Ne7, to give two examples. 

For the record, this thread belongs in 'Daring Defences to 1.d4'.


Despite what the forum says this section should just be called "Daring Defences" without the "1.d4" part as some eco codes without that move can be found there.  This thread in fact should be in the "King's Indian" section.  See http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1149126053. ; This variation of the Modern is A41 or A42.
  
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Hehmer
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #12 - 04/09/11 at 13:47:49
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Markovich wrote on 04/08/11 at 20:09:46:
Ludde wrote on 04/07/11 at 07:27:07:
Nelson wrote on 02/25/11 at 17:59:15:
Hi,

My personal favourite is 1 d4 g6 2 c4 Bg7 3 Nc3 c5 4 d5 Bc3 5 bc f5................

This line is not as unsound as it looks and great fun to play!!

Regards,

Nelson. Smiley

Apart from the sad fact that white can avoid this by simply playing e4 instead of Nc3 I find this line rather intriguing. Does anyone know if it is covered in any theoretical work? Apart from "the Sniper" that is....


There is a previous thread on this, somewhere.  I once won rather easily with 6.e4! fxe4 7.f3, but my opponent could've played better (though he didn't play 7...exf3?).  I think that those who say that 3.e4 is best are probably right, but this amateur player remains skeptical of the claim that Black is fine after 5...f5 6.e4!


To me Black seems fine after 6...fxe4 7.f3 d6 8.fxe4 Nf6 and he has also 7...e5!? 8.dxe6 Nc6! with complications.
  
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Markovich
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #11 - 04/08/11 at 20:09:46
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Ludde wrote on 04/07/11 at 07:27:07:
Nelson wrote on 02/25/11 at 17:59:15:
Hi,

My personal favourite is 1 d4 g6 2 c4 Bg7 3 Nc3 c5 4 d5 Bc3 5 bc f5................

This line is not as unsound as it looks and great fun to play!!

Regards,

Nelson. Smiley

Apart from the sad fact that white can avoid this by simply playing e4 instead of Nc3 I find this line rather intriguing. Does anyone know if it is covered in any theoretical work? Apart from "the Sniper" that is....


There is a previous thread on this, somewhere.  I once won rather easily with 6.e4! fxe4 7.f3, but my opponent could've played better (though he didn't play 7...exf3?).  I think that those who say that 3.e4 is best are probably right, but this amateur player remains skeptical of the claim that Black is fine after 5...f5 6.e4!
  

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Ludde
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #10 - 04/08/11 at 14:08:57
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Thanks Hehmer, that was very helpful. I must admit that having too many chessbooks never stopped me from getting another one so far...
  
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Hehmer
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #9 - 04/07/11 at 13:59:11
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Ludde wrote on 04/07/11 at 07:27:07:
Nelson wrote on 02/25/11 at 17:59:15:
Hi,

My personal favourite is 1 d4 g6 2 c4 Bg7 3 Nc3 c5 4 d5 Bc3 5 bc f5................

This line is not as unsound as it looks and great fun to play!!

Regards,

Nelson. Smiley

Apart from the sad fact that white can avoid this by simply playing e4 instead of Nc3 I find this line rather intriguing. Does anyone know if it is covered in any theoretical work? Apart from "the Sniper" that is....


Carpathian Warrior 2, Lalic/Okhotnic, 2008, has 165 pages on it. I considered buying that book because one can expect good work from Lalic but I finally didn't because I have too many chessbooks already. 

  
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #8 - 04/07/11 at 08:06:03
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I maybe wouldn't call it theoretical work, but IIRC, Dzindzi has recommended something like this in a video.
  
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Ludde
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #7 - 04/07/11 at 07:27:07
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Nelson wrote on 02/25/11 at 17:59:15:
Hi,

My personal favourite is 1 d4 g6 2 c4 Bg7 3 Nc3 c5 4 d5 Bc3 5 bc f5................

This line is not as unsound as it looks and great fun to play!!

Regards,

Nelson. Smiley

Apart from the sad fact that white can avoid this by simply playing e4 instead of Nc3 I find this line rather intriguing. Does anyone know if it is covered in any theoretical work? Apart from "the Sniper" that is....
  
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Jay
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #6 - 03/15/11 at 15:07:45
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Paddy wrote on 02/26/11 at 11:42:09:
Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 02/09/11 at 02:17:39:
If White plays 1. d4 and 2. c4 without ...e4, how to play a pure Modern against this setup? viz. 1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bg7 3. Nc3 or 3. g3, 3. Nf3, without transposing to a King's Indian?


How necesary is it to your Modern repertoire that you start with 1 d4 g6? 

I ask, because if you can start with the flexible 1 d4 d6, you have a lot more playable options in addition to the Modern, e.g. 1 d4 d6 2 c4 e5! (see e.g. the recent book "A Universl Weapon 1 d4 d6") or the Leningrad Dutch, as well as the Modern, the King's Indian and the Old Indian.

Have you read "A Universal Weapon 1.d4 d6"?  I thought of acquiring it as I suspect it would supplement my own King's Indian Defence material.  Currently I have Play the King's Indian by Ghallagher and Fighting the Anti-King's Indians by Dembo.  I seriously considered it, but the cheapest I can find the book for is $30-35 and that is a bit steep. (But worth it if it delivers a more comprehensive repertoire as black to me.)  Currently my repertoire as black is rather fragmented.  I tend to play Sicilian against 1.e4 (no particular system except usually aiming for hyper accelerated except when white play makes this risky) and KID against 1.d4 and playing either 1.c4 c5 or 1.c4 e5.  Quite varied.  It certainly does not 'feel' like a repertoire.
  
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #5 - 02/26/11 at 11:42:09
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 02/09/11 at 02:17:39:
If White plays 1. d4 and 2. c4 without ...e4, how to play a pure Modern against this setup? viz. 1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bg7 3. Nc3 or 3. g3, 3. Nf3, without transposing to a King's Indian?


How necesary is it to your Modern repertoire that you start with 1 d4 g6? 

I ask, because if you can start with the flexible 1 d4 d6, you have a lot more playable options in addition to the Modern, e.g. 1 d4 d6 2 c4 e5! (see e.g. the recent book "A Universl Weapon 1 d4 d6") or the Leningrad Dutch, as well as the Modern, the King's Indian and the Old Indian.
  
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #4 - 02/26/11 at 06:00:58
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Easy : play a King's Indian !
  
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #3 - 02/25/11 at 17:59:15
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Hi,

My personal favourite is 1 d4 g6 2 c4 Bg7 3 Nc3 c5 4 d5 Bc3 5 bc f5................

This line is not as unsound as it looks and great fun to play!!

Regards,

Nelson. Smiley
  
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #2 - 02/09/11 at 09:09:35
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This Topic was moved here from 1. e4 ... [move by] Willempie.
Indeed, more of a d4 question.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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TN
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Re: How to Play Modern Defence Against d4/c4?
Reply #1 - 02/09/11 at 04:56:16
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Gilchrist is a legend wrote on 02/09/11 at 02:17:39:
If White plays 1. d4 and 2. c4 without ...e4, how to play a pure Modern against this setup? viz. 1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bg7 3. Nc3 or 3. g3, 3. Nf3, without transposing to a King's Indian?


1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.e4 e5 5.Nf3 Nd7 6.Be2 c6 7.0-0 Nh6 and 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nf3 d6 4.g3 e5 5.Bg2 Nd7 6.Nc3 Ne7, to give two examples. 

For the record, this thread belongs in 'Daring Defences to 1.d4'.
  

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