Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7 (Read 15043 times)
Vulpes
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


~ Magic

Posts: 43
Joined: 04/05/11
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #19 - 04/29/11 at 13:53:08
Post Tools
The former line is "well-known" via [ 1.c4 e5 2.g3 f5 3.d4 ed4: 4.Qd4: (4.Nf3!?) Nc6 5.Qe3+ Be7 ] which is seen as better for white.
The difference in move order rules out Nf3 as answer to ed4: - that's pretty much it. ..Nc6 will come sooner or later, ..d6 is played in the old variant at some point.
To put it simply, it just transposes to an old variation which always gave white an easy plus since the Queen isn't easily attackable after all, he enjoys an unchallenged space advantage, and the Bishop on e7 is too passive/misplaced and would much prefer sitting on g7/b4/c5.

I don't really see where this suddenly becomes good for Black!?
  

- Iron Tigran #1
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #18 - 03/19/11 at 10:39:34
Post Tools
By the way, 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Be7 3.g3 h5 4.h3 Nf6 5.Nf3 d6/Nc6 6.d4 favours White. So much for easy equality.  Grin
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Jay
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 212
Location: USA
Joined: 04/18/09
Gender: Male
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #17 - 03/19/11 at 04:44:27
Post Tools
George Jempty wrote on 02/11/11 at 21:46:04:
TonyRo wrote on 02/11/11 at 13:11:09:
I love it when 1700 players argue with FMs. Priceless.

In the first line, even 6. Bg2 Nc6 7. Qf4 Nf6 8. Nf3 0-0 9. 0-0 Be6 (9...Bd7!?) 10. b3 Qd7 11. Bb2 looks clearly better for White, as Black has less space and White's minors are better. Obvious moves like Rad1 and Ng5 are on the cards next. Easy edge for White.

In the second line, 4. Nf3! looks strong as well.


I love it when FMs argue with chess engines rated 3000+

From a practical standpoint the line with 2...Be7 and 3...h5 meshes well with other aspects of my repertoire and at my level will probably scare a lot of players into sub optimal play

I love it when I run into a player playing moves he does not understand from some 3000+ engine.  What to do when your novel play gets a novel response that you have not had the 'silicon monster' evaluate?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GMTonyKosten
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline


Mr Dynamic?

Posts: 3100
Location: Clermont-Ferrand
Joined: 12/19/02
Gender: Male
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #16 - 03/10/11 at 13:30:28
Post Tools
linksspringer wrote on 02/12/11 at 22:16:19:
sorry for the off-topic comment, but: I am a bit bewildered that this thread is in "important topics", isn't that section usually reserved for chesspublishing (Tony, moderators, etc.)?

Me too, I will 'unstick' it immediately!
  
Back to top
IP Logged
 
linksspringer
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 376
Joined: 09/25/07
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #15 - 02/12/11 at 22:16:19
Post Tools
sorry for the off-topic comment, but: I am a bit bewildered that this thread is in "important topics", isn't that section usually reserved for chesspublishing (Tony, moderators, etc.)?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George Jempty
Full Member
***
Offline


Participant 1996 US Corres.
Champ. Qualifying Rd.

Posts: 201
Location: Carrollton, TX
Joined: 03/29/09
Gender: Male
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #14 - 02/12/11 at 14:38:54
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 02/12/11 at 03:45:55:
kylemeister wrote on 02/11/11 at 22:17:50:
Speaking of the first line, it looks to me like a kind of position which has long been considered somewhat better for White, and I don't know what the significance of ...Be7 in that particular position is supposed to be.


But you can win White's queen man!!!!11


No, but because Qxg7? is not a good idea, ...Bf6 might follow, attacking White's queen.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1772
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #13 - 02/12/11 at 03:45:55
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 02/11/11 at 22:17:50:
Speaking of the first line, it looks to me like a kind of position which has long been considered somewhat better for White, and I don't know what the significance of ...Be7 in that particular position is supposed to be.


But you can win White's queen man!!!!11
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George Jempty
Full Member
***
Offline


Participant 1996 US Corres.
Champ. Qualifying Rd.

Posts: 201
Location: Carrollton, TX
Joined: 03/29/09
Gender: Male
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #12 - 02/12/11 at 03:16:26
Post Tools
George Jempty wrote on 02/11/11 at 21:43:39:
Bibs wrote on 02/11/11 at 12:34:52:
George Jempty wrote on 02/11/11 at 12:30:51:
Quote:
Oh, your earlier posts were a joke. Sorry for misunderstanding you.  Embarrassed




They're no joke and you know it but whatever.  I recommended 3...Nf6 the Berlin vs. the Spanish to a  very highly ranked international correspondence chess player (top 2 or 3 in America) in the 1980s at a chess club in Charlottesville, VA, long before it became all the rage.

So dismiss all you like, but me and my silicon training partner have zero doubts about the viability of these lines.


That fella mentioned it to someone else, who spoke to a bloke on the bus, who bumped into someone in a bar...who forked out for a lady of the night who had another customer who was a Russian diplomat who....
...a butterfly flutters its wings....
...hey presto, Kramnik in London.

Well done.




Who knows, maybe Kramnik became familiar with correspondence games played by Richard Callahan


By the way a little research by me has revealed a) I've been mis-spelling Richard's name, it should be Callaghan and b) he passed away just a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dailyprogress/obituary.aspx?n=richard-stephen-c...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George Jempty
Full Member
***
Offline


Participant 1996 US Corres.
Champ. Qualifying Rd.

Posts: 201
Location: Carrollton, TX
Joined: 03/29/09
Gender: Male
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #11 - 02/12/11 at 01:50:13
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 02/12/11 at 01:10:22:
George Jempty wrote on 02/11/11 at 21:46:04:
I love it when FMs argue with chess engines rated 3000+

With the greatest respect, you're profoundly wrong in this. At some fairly fast time limit, the machine will outplay the IM, that is true. But in all matters of chess judgment, you should prefer the strong human to the machine.  If you insist otherwise it's no skin off my nose, but I think you're chasing phantasms when you place so much trust in the evaluations of an engine.

This h5 idea really smells bad, you know? Take that for what it's worth. This Be7 move is solid enough, but why should Black so readily turn over the two bishops?


Fair enough.  White's Nd5 is possibly not so effective though until Black has played ...d6  For instance 1. c4 e5  2. Nc3 Be7  3. Nd5 and Black has 3...Bd6 transposing into a position normally reached when Black plays 2...Bb4
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #10 - 02/12/11 at 01:10:22
Post Tools
George Jempty wrote on 02/11/11 at 21:46:04:
I love it when FMs argue with chess engines rated 3000+

With the greatest respect, you're profoundly wrong in this. At some fairly fast time limit, the machine will outplay the IM, that is true. But in all matters of chess judgment, you should prefer the strong human to the machine.  If you insist otherwise it's no skin off my nose, but I think you're chasing phantasms when you place so much trust in the evaluations of an engine.

This h5 idea really smells bad, you know? Take that for what it's worth. This Be7 move is solid enough, but why should Black so readily turn over the two bishops?


  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4646
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #9 - 02/11/11 at 22:17:50
Post Tools
Speaking of the first line, it looks to me like a kind of position which has long been considered somewhat better for White, and I don't know what the significance of ...Be7 in that particular position is supposed to be.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George Jempty
Full Member
***
Offline


Participant 1996 US Corres.
Champ. Qualifying Rd.

Posts: 201
Location: Carrollton, TX
Joined: 03/29/09
Gender: Male
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #8 - 02/11/11 at 21:46:04
Post Tools
TonyRo wrote on 02/11/11 at 13:11:09:
I love it when 1700 players argue with FMs. Priceless.

In the first line, even 6. Bg2 Nc6 7. Qf4 Nf6 8. Nf3 0-0 9. 0-0 Be6 (9...Bd7!?) 10. b3 Qd7 11. Bb2 looks clearly better for White, as Black has less space and White's minors are better. Obvious moves like Rad1 and Ng5 are on the cards next. Easy edge for White.

In the second line, 4. Nf3! looks strong as well.


I love it when FMs argue with chess engines rated 3000+

From a practical standpoint the line with 2...Be7 and 3...h5 meshes well with other aspects of my repertoire and at my level will probably scare a lot of players into sub optimal play
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
George Jempty
Full Member
***
Offline


Participant 1996 US Corres.
Champ. Qualifying Rd.

Posts: 201
Location: Carrollton, TX
Joined: 03/29/09
Gender: Male
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #7 - 02/11/11 at 21:43:39
Post Tools
Bibs wrote on 02/11/11 at 12:34:52:
George Jempty wrote on 02/11/11 at 12:30:51:
Quote:
Oh, your earlier posts were a joke. Sorry for misunderstanding you.  Embarrassed




They're no joke and you know it but whatever.  I recommended 3...Nf6 the Berlin vs. the Spanish to a  very highly ranked international correspondence chess player (top 2 or 3 in America) in the 1980s at a chess club in Charlottesville, VA, long before it became all the rage.

So dismiss all you like, but me and my silicon training partner have zero doubts about the viability of these lines.


That fella mentioned it to someone else, who spoke to a bloke on the bus, who bumped into someone in a bar...who forked out for a lady of the night who had another customer who was a Russian diplomat who....
...a butterfly flutters its wings....
...hey presto, Kramnik in London.

Well done.




Who knows, maybe Kramnik became familiar with correspondence games played by Richard Callahan
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TonyRo
God Member
*****
Offline


I'm gonna crack your skull!

Posts: 1772
Location: Cleveland, OH
Joined: 11/26/07
Gender: Male
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #6 - 02/11/11 at 13:11:09
Post Tools
I love it when 1700 players argue with FMs. Priceless.

In the first line, even 6. Bg2 Nc6 7. Qf4 Nf6 8. Nf3 0-0 9. 0-0 Be6 (9...Bd7!?) 10. b3 Qd7 11. Bb2 looks clearly better for White, as Black has less space and White's minors are better. Obvious moves like Rad1 and Ng5 are on the cards next. Easy edge for White.

In the second line, 4. Nf3! looks strong as well.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bibs
God Member
*****
Online



Posts: 2168
Joined: 10/24/06
Re: New plans in the ...e5 English with early ...Be7
Reply #5 - 02/11/11 at 12:34:52
Post Tools
George Jempty wrote on 02/11/11 at 12:30:51:
Quote:
Oh, your earlier posts were a joke. Sorry for misunderstanding you.  Embarrassed


They're no joke and you know it but whatever.  I recommended 3...Nf6 the Berlin vs. the Spanish to a  very highly ranked international correspondence chess player (top 2 or 3 in America) in the 1980s at a chess club in Charlottesville, VA, long before it became all the rage.

So dismiss all you like, but me and my silicon training partner have zero doubts about the viability of these lines.


That fella mentioned it to someone else, who spoke to a bloke on the bus, who bumped into someone in a bar...who forked out for a lady of the night who had another customer who was a Russian diplomat who....
...a butterfly flutters its wings....
...hey presto, Kramnik in London.

Well done.


  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo